Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

[Rowedog]

If Liz wasn't acting out of desperation then her actions in busted were even stupider than they appear at first.

actions can be "stupid", it's possible. But I have the feeling that maybe Liz is confused with Maria in "sexual healing" here.
I really don't understand why it's so weird that she wanted to help the one she loved and they were a team.
I swear if Liz wouldn't have helped him people would have called her selfish or someone who wants to be with him only when things are nice and easy. She helped him and then she's called desperate because you know it's not possible that she simply wanted to help him like she ALWAYS did she's a masochist and an actress *put sarcasm here* It seems to me that one way or another she (like Max) can do no right for the fans.

It seemed to me that if Liz really wanted to help Max, she'd have tried to talk him out of his completely dumbarse plan and help him to come up with a better one. They were both such smart people and for two intelligent people to come up with such a crappy, ridiculous plan beggars belief.

That's why we think Liz is acting out of desperation/guilt. Because if she was so eager to go along with Max's plan without so much as questioning it a little bit, it looks like she was just eager to prove that she wasn't going to let Max down no matter what this time, instead of truly wanting to help Max and thinking that the plan was an appropriate one for the situation. Which it clearly wasn't.

I totally agree with you, April.

Coccy, none of us are saying that Max and Liz weren't meant for each other or whatever it is you're trying to imply, I'm just saying that after all the carnage of season two it makes sense that Liz would feel insecure about her relationship with Max and would try to overcompensate. You can't expect Max and Liz to get back together like nothing ever happened, that's dumb. Couples all have low points and for me, a lot of season three was a low point for them. Plus... the writing sucked.

[Coccy]

Coccy, none of us are saying that Max and Liz weren't meant for each other or whatever it is you're trying to imply

I don't understand the need to use this tone.
I don't think that in my replies i was implying what you said and i don't understand why you're saying it and what it have to do with the discussion I was just replying to an interpretation of the canon episode that i don't completely agree with (it's not that i totally disagree. I just think that some words used here are stretching, an exaggeration. That's all. And i explained it, it can't be "implied") I thought that it was legit, perhaps i was wrong and it's not possible to disagree about something especially when it's not an appreciation. Everyone has the right to dislike what they want but i feel that people should have the right to disagree without getting defensive and condescending posts especially when they lose their time trying do explain their point without insulting people.
For the matter, even if someone was trying to say that M&L weren't meant for each other it wouldn't be a problem itself but an opinion that people can choose to reply to if they agree or disagree.

Ps: i understand that M&L "were both such smart and intelligent people" (i didn't know that) for some but i think that being smart and intelligent doesn't make you perfect or some superior being that can't do a stupid thing (or agree with a stupid plan) like all the other human beings (of half human) of the show. That's the point.

[Rowedog]

I don't understand the need to use this tone.
I don't think that in my replies i was implying what you said and i don't understand why you're saying it and what it have to do with the discussion I was just replying to an interpretation of the canon episode that i don't completely agree with (it's not that i totally disagree. I just think that some words used here are stretching, an exaggeration. That's all. And i explained it, it can't be "implied") I thought that it was legit, perhaps i was wrong and it's not possible to disagree about something especially when it's not an appreciation. Everyone has the right to dislike what they want but i feel that people should have the right to disagree without getting defensive and condescending posts especially when they lose their time trying do explain their point without insulting people.
For the matter, even if someone was trying to say that M&L weren't meant for each other it wouldn't be a problem itself but an opinion that people can choose to reply to if they agree or disagree.

Coccy, I don't want to start anything with you and I agree with your right to express your opinion, but I think you're being a tad hypocritical.

I understand that you feel very passionately about the dreamer relationship as well as the show (which we all do, that's why we're here) but you come off very strong. From where I'm sitting you come off as very sarcastic and forceful in your opinion. Maybe that's not your intention, I don't know. I don't know you and I don't know what you're like, but I do know how you come across to me when you post online. For example, I find this post to almost be a personal attack:

I swear if Liz wouldn't have helped him people would have called her selfish or someone who wants to be with him only when things are nice and easy. She helped him and then she's called desperate because you know it's not possible that she simply wanted to help him like she ALWAYS did she's a masochist and an actress *put sarcasm here* It seems to me that one way or another she (like Max) can do no right for the fans.

I don't think it was your intention to be rude, but that's how you came across to me.

Coccy, none of us are saying that Max and Liz weren't meant for each other or whatever it is you're trying to imply

The reason why I added the "whatever it is you're trying to imply" is because I didn't know for certain what it was you were trying to imply and I'm not going to assume. I wasn't trying to be rude or condescending, I just wasn't clear on what your point was. I suppose that's the problem when you post online, you can never tell what the person's tone is when they post it, which in turn gives way to misunderstandings. I suppose I don't help my case by not using smilies. And you're right, I probably could have worded that better.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be so quick to assume that everyone's trying to insult us. Let's all just give each other the benefit of the doubt and get along.

[April]

Didn't mean to start up a debate about this.

Alison basically said what I wanted to. Just because I interpreted the episode a certain way doesn't mean I don't like Max and Liz as a couple or don't think they're in love and meant to be together.

Actually, having written all these posts and thought this through, I've actually changed my mind about Max and Liz being OOC in this episode. Considering where they ended up in Season 2, I'm actually inclined to think they were in character now. The only thing I have an issue with is the dumbness of the fake robbery plan when there were clearly better options.

Coccy, I do agree about the lameness of Who Died and Made You King. There were lots of possibilities with that episode and it wasn't written well.

[RoswellOracle]

I think maybe Coccy remembers the rampant Max and LIz bashing that happened back on Fanforum. I still smart a bit from it myself, hearing all the crap about my fav couple and characters.

These days Candies are much more tolerant of the characters, but back in the day, everything Max and Liz did was questioned, torn apart, and blamed for ruining the show.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a strong opinion, or expressing it, but it shouldn't get turned into personal attacks. No one is right or wrong, it is only a discussion of different points of view.

I don't even usually bother getting into discussions about season 3, becuase in my strong opinion season 3 sucked rocks. Like someone above said, it was continuing the ruination of the characters that started at the end of season 2. I had hoped that season 3 would fix some of the stuff from the previous seasons, but it just kept getting worse. By the epi Control I was completely sick of it, didn't like any of the characters any more and was hoping the show got cancelled. To me it wasn't even Roswell anymore.

The only interesting thing to me in season 3 was Khivar, and they totally threw that away too.

[Coccy]

Coccy, I don't want to start anything with you and I agree with your right to express your opinion, but I think you're being a tad hypocritical.

I understand that you feel very passionately about the dreamer relationship as well as the show (which we all do, that's why we're here) but you come off very strong. From where I'm sitting you come off as very sarcastic and forceful in your opinion. Maybe that's not your intention, I don't know. I don't know you and I don't know what you're like, but I do know how you come across to me when you post online. For example, I find this post to almost be a personal attack:

I'm sarcastic sometimes (i don't know about being "forceful" i could take it as a compliment I tend to explain what i mean a lot but only because english is not my main language and i'm not always sure if that what i really mean is clear to everyone. To me it's more "forceful" the one who state a point like if it's a fact without explaining his/her reasons too much.) and i have strong opinions, this doesn't mean that i'm hypocritical because i always write what i really think and sometimes i reply because i believe that some discussions are hypocritical and double standard.
We are all strong about our opinions otherwise we wouldn't lose our time writing them, in the first place. This doesn't mean that we're automatically rude.
Being sarcastic isn't automatically insulting or a personal attack especially when the sarcastic/ironical statement is written after long posts where i already explained my point giving the chance to reply. Being sarcastic can be insulting when it's the only reply you get from a person (and even this board provides some good examples of it and "personal attacks")

I understand that you find my posts a personal attack and rude because i feel that way toward your posts right now and the tone you're using with me. Talk about being hypocritical. I just disagreed with a point and i explained why. But it seems that it's not possible to do it. I don't feel that the discussion was (was) so "heated" and not civil. But it's me.

The reason why I added the "whatever it is you're trying to imply" is because I didn't know for certain what it was you were trying to imply and I'm not going to assume.

lets see.... assuming that i myself can't be certain about what people really want to say in their posts...
You're accusing me of assuming something yet in the same reply you 're assuming that i was implying things that i didn't write in my posts and have nothing to do with the discussion

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't be so quick to assume that everyone's trying to insult us. Let's all just give each other the benefit of the doubt and get along.

believe me i agree with you it's the reason of why i'm replying (not being sarcastic)

[Coccy]

I think maybe Coccy remembers the rampant Max and LIz bashing that happened back on Fanforum. I still smart a bit from it myself, hearing all the crap about my fav couple and characters.

These days Candies are much more tolerant of the characters, but back in the day, everything Max and Liz did was questioned, torn apart, and blamed for ruining the show.

i didn't want this discussion turn into a generic discussion about the fandom
anyway i wasn't one of those who posted at the fanforum but i know what you're talking about and honestly i still see it to a degree
The double standard isn't dead. Everything Max and Liz did, unlike other characters, is always questioned and analyzed under the microscope.
I mean.. look at this thread and the others in the board. i find it obvious.
But i find it kinda "normal" too because they're the main characters, I don't think that people can't criticize them
But if you write something it's only natural that someone can agree or disagree.

[April]

Oh, gosh. I think I'm done.

[juliecollard87]

I’m not sure if it has ever been mentioned before but I hated the episode A Tale of Two Parties. The writers knew their we people that loved the idea of Michel/Liz and Maria/Max together so they teased us and put them in “romantic” scenes together. It always bugged me like the writers were poking fun almost.

How the whole break up went down with Michael and Maria. I felt it was forced and unneeded. I always felt that Maria would stayed with Michael because they were just as much soul mates as Max/Liz. Even though they were hot and cold at times they had the most normal relationship for teenage kids. I can say this as a diehard polar fan haha.

[Sundae]

You know what really annoys me...and this is in regards to fan fiction.

Its when writers make Michael either a Evans or a Valenti. I'm sorry but I don't want to read about Michael Evans, nor do I want to read about Michael Valenti. I want to read about MICHAEL GUERIN. Yeah yeah, I know that it helps streamline your plot or makes it easier for you to make Michael someones brother...but it bugs me. It never use to, but for some reason now it does. I feel like it takes something away from the original characters and face it, I'm in love with the original characters more than I will be with another other made up version (no matter how good the writing). The last name holds a lot of weight and I don't see any reason why you can't make Max and Michael brothers with different last name...would it be so hard to quickly state a reason for it and then move on with the fic accordingly?

It's just a pet peeve. Just like the writers who refer to Maria as Ria...UHHHG!