Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

[Rowedog]

You know what really annoys me...and this is in regards to fan fiction.

Its when writers make Michael either a Evans or a Valenti. I'm sorry but I don't want to read about Michael Evans, nor do I want to read about Michael Valenti. I want to read about MICHAEL GUERIN. Yeah yeah, I know that it helps streamline your plot or makes it easier for you to make Michael someones brother...but it bugs me. It never use to, but for some reason now it does. I feel like it takes something away from the original characters and face it, I'm in love with the original characters more than I will be with another other made up version (no matter how good the writing). The last name holds a lot of weight and I don't see any reason why you can't make Max and Michael brothers with different last name...would it be so hard to quickly state a reason for it and then move on with the fic accordingly?

Because as authors we try to go for believability and if we attempt to make Michael an integral, biological part of the Evans family, it wouldn't make sense to have his last name as Guerin. It's not like we changed his name to Neville

You should still be able to visualise him and (if the author's done a good job) still see most of the same character traits, whether as an Evans or a Guerin or another last name. To me, his last name really isn't important at all. Keep the first name, but Guerin doesn't really add anything to a story and would only create a mess that the author would have to clean up. Plus if they only add in a sentence about why his name is Guerin it would really mess up the flow of their fic and it would look like an add in just so that they could keep the Guerin last name in there. To me it'd look a bit messy and totally unnecessary.

But that's just my opinion. I've never had any issue with any characters having a different last name so long as I could still recognise their characters. I'd rather see a well developed Michael Evans than a completely out of character Michael Guerin.

[micheal_nm]

When Michael and Liz "robbed" the store where the UFO was hidden. I was sure they could've thought of a better and safer idea.

[Sin]

When Liz is blamed for leaving Max in Destiny, for her actions in The End Of The World, and for leaving him in Ch-Ch-Changes.

I never get the arguments for these.

Was she supposed to stay even though she was directly hindering Max (and by association the group) from doing what they were meant to do and go to Antar and be together? That was the plan at that point in time. I feel that would actually make Liz out to be incredibly selfish and I think she would be blamed for hurting Max and putting the world in jeopardy if not Earth then Antar assuming what they knew then. They're plan was to liberate their world. Liz was not apart of that or the four square assuming what they knew. Liz saw herself as a complication and removed herself to make the transition easier for Max and not have him choose between his planet, people, duty, destiny and everything else about his origins. Why is she the bad guy for this?

I am further flabbergasted when people say she is blame worthy in the latter two episodes. What was she supposed to do in The End Of The World? Was she supposed to risk the world and put everyone in danger? Max couldn't have known according to what Future Max said. Max, Isabel, Michael, and the world were in jeopardy by telling Max the truth. I get that the circumstances were stupid and unbelievable and whacked out crazy but that doesn't stop the situation from being dire. I get that some may have been frustrated by the storyline but again this would make Liz out to be a completely selfish person who had no care about the world or anyone else if she ended up telling Max the truth. Was she supposed to risk everyone's lives by dealing with a very fragile situation. Liz only knew what was told to her and she was understandably limited in her knowledge and so she did what she felt she had to do. she was put in an impossible situation and she did the best she could with what was given to her and what she knew.

I actually admire her for what she does here because I think it proves just how much she loves Max even though it hurts him. It proves that she was willing to do anything to protect him from having to live through seeing Michael and Isabel die right in front of his eyes like that.

It's like people just think she is just being this bitch just to be cruel, heartless and malicious and the context of why she is doing all of these things is never brought up. I don't see what other choice she could have done and not be seen as a selfish brat.

the blame in Ch-Ch-Changes makes no sense to me what so ever. She was sick, dying, in exhausting and mind-splitting pain and getting worse and yet people still wanted her to stay by Max's side even though just hearing his voice was killing her. It's like they don't even care that Liz was having a complete breakdown and that Max was causing her the distress they want her to stay and suffer.

[killjoy]

the blame in Ch-Ch-Changes makes no sense to me what so ever. She was sick, dying, in exhausting and mind-splitting pain and getting worse and yet people still wanted her to stay by Max's side even though just hearing his voice was killing her. It's like they don't even care that Liz was having a complete breakdown and that Max was causing her the distress they want her to stay and suffer.

Don't you get it?! It's all about The Max around here with some people They're so in love with him they think Liz should be willing to walk barefooted on broken glass just to be by his side.If not they don't see her as worthy of him.

[jake17]

Don't you get it?! It's all about The Max around here with some people They're so in love with him they think Liz should be willing to walk barefooted on broken glass just to be by his side.If not they don't see her as worthy of him.

Hmm well I guess that might be true with some people but to me just because you happen to love Max doesn't mean that you feel that everything he did was right or that when Liz held her own ground and went with her own feelings she was wrong.

I really admired those times she held her own, especially when Alex died and she was convinced he was murdered. She was basically all alone and never relented, even when he threatened her with their friendship, she never stop fighting to find out the truth about his death.

I'm sorry but I think you can love Max but still see him as a person with faults, who made many mistakes. I'm a dreamer and the times when Liz stood up to him were I believe her finest moments.

[Sin]

Don't you get it?! It's all about The Max around here with some people They're so in love with him they think Liz should be willing to walk barefooted on broken glass just to be by his side.If not they don't see her as worthy of him.

Perhaps. I just don't understand why though. I mean she had to leave. She was a danger to herself and others and yet she is made out to be this evil witch that was abandoning him or like she was somehow mistreating him when that had nothing at all to do with the actual context of what happened in the show. Liz was mean because she wanted to not be in complete agony and not be exposed as an alien and put everyone around her in danger? How dare she!

It seems often at times she's burned at the stake for things she had no control over.

[Rowedog]

the blame in Ch-Ch-Changes makes no sense to me what so ever. She was sick, dying, in exhausting and mind-splitting pain and getting worse and yet people still wanted her to stay by Max's side even though just hearing his voice was killing her. It's like they don't even care that Liz was having a complete breakdown and that Max was causing her the distress they want her to stay and suffer.

Don't you get it?! It's all about The Max around here with some people They're so in love with him they think Liz should be willing to walk barefooted on broken glass just to be by his side.If not they don't see her as worthy of him.

Really? I think there's an equal amount of (if not more) Liz lovers on this board. They crucify Max for his mistakes, but then gloss over or dismiss Liz's. They elevate one and damn the other instead of seeing them both as flawed, likeable characters who are human (figuratively speaking in Max's case) and make mistakes.

They both screwed up. But if they didn't, I wouldn't like them. How could we as an audience relate to a perfect character?

So Carrie, I'm with you. Let's just love them both for their flaws and accept that they're not perfect and that they make mistakes.

[Sin]

How could we as an audience relate to a perfect character?

I don't think perfection can exist, even if a person is faultless, innocent, heroic and all goodness and light and the like then they will still be flawed in the eyes of some. They will still be perceived as having flaws somewhere. There is no such thing as perfection. It's much like beauty. It's in the eyes of the beholder. And I don't believe that even back in season one where things were for the most part GREAT all around -- that people believed that Max and Liz were perfect individual characters or that they were without flaws.

They crucify Max for his mistakes, but then gloss over or dismiss Liz's.

I mentioned this else where but I don't really think fans are crucifying Max so much as they are upset that the character they knew was completely changed and altered for purely plot purposes, for a story in which no one ever wanted. I don't think it's about "crucifying Max" so much as hating the way the writers changed the very fabric of what made him who he was for a plot centered story that no one could have cared less about. From that point on people were upset that Max's character changed and they had every right to dislike it. I don't think that this was anything very new to television. Surely viewers have had a bad reaction to this kind of plot vehicle writing before? Viewers and fans were upset about the change and that reflected their opinion of Max. I don't ever think that it's been about perfection or that he made mistakes. But that may be just me. From what I have seen the fandom as a whole doesn't seem to hate Max they just hate the way he was written towards the end and that has given them a lot of dissatisfaction towards him since.

With objectors on Liz's behalf it seems a lot of the time as if she is seen as unworthy because of these three reasons I have posted above. As if she didn't love him enough and these are commonly the most sought after reasons said as to why. When I honestly can't think of a way in which she could have loved him more. These reasons are used to discredit her.

Let's just love them both for their flaws and accept that they're not perfect and that they make mistakes.

I'm not quite there yet because that just seems to me as a way of saying that it's okay for the writers to abuse the fan base in the ways they did when the show is on. The writers most likely don't care anymore at this point and have other jobs or retired or whatever but simply giving it a "go" pass just seems like saying screwing over the fans is alright, which I don't really agree with. The writers did a horrible job writing the show and I think it's a testament to why this fandom has stayed around so long. The writers ruined so much during a 61 episode run that even 8 years later we still have writers posting fics trying to fix what they broke or deny that portions even happened to it as a way to perserve what was once sacred to them. To turn a blind eye to the problems of Roswell and just say that all was perfect and fine doesn't seem fair. But that's just my view.

[Rowedog]

Let's just love them both for their flaws and accept that they're not perfect and that they make mistakes.

I'm not quite there yet because that just seems to me as a way of saying that it's okay for the writers to abuse the fan base in the ways they did when the show is on. The writers most likely don't care anymore at this point and have other jobs or retired or whatever but simply giving it a "go" pass just seems like saying screwing over the fans is alright, which I don't really agree with. The writers did a horrible job writing the show and I think it's a testament to why this fandom has stayed around so long. The writers ruined so much during a 61 episode run that even 8 years later we still have writers posting fics trying to fix what they broke or deny that portions even happened to it as a way to perserve what was once sacred to them. To turn a blind eye to the problems of Roswell and just say that all was perfect and fine doesn't seem fair. But that's just my view.

I'm definitely not saying that by having flawed characters that the show was perfect not by any means. And I absolutely hated the Tess/Max/baby plot as much as your next dreamer. But at the same time, I get where Max was coming from when he did those things and I can't hate him for it. He made a mistake (a massive one) and I also understand Liz's need to get away from that and I was proud of her for it. And frankly, while it did suck and hurt and all that stuff, I often feel like it's been blown way out of proportion. One mistake and one stupid action shouldn't define a character and it grates when people can't see past it to all the other wonderful things he said or did that truly showed who he was.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I like Max, I like Liz and I love them together. What I don't like is when people pick an obvious side and pretend like the character they're championing is the one who should have the other character begging and grovelling for their forgiveness or whatever. I'm on their side when it comes down to it and that's what I'm advocating.

[RoswellOracle]

I'm definitely not saying that by having flawed characters that the show was perfect not by any means. And I absolutely hated the Tess/Max/baby plot as much as your next dreamer. But at the same time, I get where Max was coming from when he did those things and I can't hate him for it. He made a mistake (a massive one) and I also understand Liz's need to get away from that and I was proud of her for it. And frankly, while it did suck and hurt and all that stuff, I often feel like it's been blown way out of proportion. One mistake and one stupid action shouldn't define a character and it grates when people can't see past it to all the other wonderful things he said or did that truly showed who he was.

I can see where Max was coming from too. And we all know that Tess and Liz to an extent set him up, but Max still had choices and he chose a very childish and self-destructive path. He didn't try to work out the problems he was having with Isabel or Liz. He closed his eyes to the posibility that Alex was murdered. He didn't try to talk to Michael or Maria for some insight, he listened only to Tess who was telling him he was right and to screw everyone else.

To me this shows a very fundamental character flaw. Is this the type of guy you want for a savior of your planet who is stubborn to the point of self-destruction and surrounds himself with 'yes' men? The Max from season 1 was much better than that.

We all know Max is controling to a certain degree, and pushed into a corner it possibly would have turned out like it did, but the whole Max/Tess storyline just seem completely out of character to me unless Tess was mindwarping the hell out of him. Where is the Max that always tried to do the right thing? Where was the Max with the condom in his pocket? Max the planner? Max who fundamentally loved Liz? Max who would do anything to protect the people he loved? Max who risked his life for love?

It would have made more sense to me if they would have included that Max remember loving Tess in their other life, or if he was better friends with her or felt comfortable with her, but that was never the case. Of course if they did, I think dreamers would have all thrown their TVs out the window and organized death squads for the PTB.

The reason I was so upset with the Max/Tess storyline is it just wasn't the Max we knew and loved. He never would have threatened his sister and certainly wouldn't have had a one night stand with someone he didn't love.

That is why I was so sure at the time that Tess was manipulating him somehow. I still think she must have been, even though the show never admitted it.

It is also one of the reasons I hated season three so much. Other than the fact that the storylines sucked, Max was a completely different person. He was still that asshat who so casually slept with Tess and abandoned his friends and family.