Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by nibbles2 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:59 pm

That or Tess is a dumb idiot. Preferably the latter
It was Tess's reason for getting off the planet and everybody else bought it. So I guess it's the others who were dumb idiots in this incident.

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by manda8706 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:31 am

RoninBehr wrote:LOL
Zanity wrote:UNBORN BABIES DON'T BREATHE!!!
I agree with you on that...you know actually I didn't care for the whole sci-fi aspect of second season...I was more focused on the relationships rather than alien tramps moving into town :wink:

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They say thats why the show failed...The second season was its JUMPING THE SHARK....and I love the second season, it was just not what had captured us as fans..it was the love NOT the science :D.
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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by Tears_of_Mercury » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:33 pm

Okay, I read about the first five pages and then skipped to the last, so I'm sure I missed a lot, but on the subject of Liz's erratic behavior in season three I would just like to point one thing out. Liz went into Max's quest to find his son with the idea that it was something that they would be doing together, and that Max, after having 'seen what it was like with one of his own kind', had gotten his priorities figured out and after drifting for the better part of season two had found himself somewhat again. But yet, despite the fact that Liz consistently put just as much time, sweat, and tears into the search for Max's son as Max, and was in many cases the driving force behind their better leads, what it degenerated into was Liz giving Max all the moral support and information he needed and then Max going off and doing his own thing, many times not calling her or talking to her for days (Secrets and Lies & Control, as well as Samuel Rising, for instance). For me the big kicker was in the beginning of Behind the Music, when Max asked Liz for the pendant back - he didn't ask to borrow it, or ask if he could see it; he just assumed that it was something that he could take back. That was what he'd given her to represent himself and to symbolize their relationship when he thought he was leaving the planet, and then he just... ah. That was a moment that made me bang my head against the wall.

I think in some ways Max's neglect of Liz became a barrier between him/his son and her, and to Liz that was what made it feel like his "betrayal" with Tess was happening over and over again, not just something that had happened in the past. And as far as her joking about Alex's death - the whole episode was extremely OOC, as was most of the season. But I think the important thing to remember is that in other instances, like MITC when talking to Maria and in parts of CDB, Liz also used sarcasm and jokes, some meant to be more lighthearted and some more cutting, to cover up what she was really feeling. So in that respect it makes "sense" that she would make a joke about Tess, however ill-fitting. Honestly I thought it was more odd for Max not to pick up on what was really going on with her... but then, they were both pretty out of it for most of seasons two and three.

I agree, the fact that Liz never told Max about FMax was one of by biggest grievances with the show. She didn't love Future Max the way she loved Max - in fact, at some points she seemed to not even like him very much - and yet she just hung onto the promise he manipulated out of her for dear life.

One thing that always made me bang my head against the wall: the lack of loving, both romantic and familial, that Kyle got on the series. He was always being left by the wayside, and Tess manipulated that for her own gains. Bitch. (oops, I mean IMO Tess may have taken advantage of some of Kyle's vulnerabilities, and in my opinion that made her a less than likeable character. :D )

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by Coccy » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:09 am

honestly?

i hate the hypocrisy and incoherency of roswell characters created by writers (and even the fans)
examples of what i'm talking about ?

all the things Max (and sometimes Liz) is being accused of doing are most of the times things that the other characters did too.
for example in the episode W Las Vegas i dislike the scene when Michael accused Max of not healing him, of being a robot who healed his body but not his soul.
Everytime i watch it i think:
1) why only Max? where's his girlfriend? Isabel? at least Max noticed something and in the end he understood that Michael needed that time with him. he even had to feel sorry and apologize. what about Michael's other friends and his girlfriend? Did Maria healed him inside in the way Max didn't? Did Isabel who was a sister to him understood how he was feeling? it doesn't seem to me that they did. One thought about using vegas for her dreams and the other one tried to find a hot boy for the night. paradox is that only Max seemed to think about Michael and stayed with him or at least he tried. all the other friends vanished and didn't even understand the real reason of why Michael was there using all his money.

2) where was Michael in the summer after Max was tortured by the FBI? where's the scene where Michael healed Max "inside" after he got tortured like an animal? i don't remember this scene nor i can find clues that someone helped Max after that very shocking experience. on the contrary, Michael was whining about Max's new role as the leader and Isabel was just.. Isabel. tell me who healed Max after what happened otherwise what Michael told him in W Las Vegas was totally uncalled for.
In "a roswell xmas carol" we saw that Max wasn't over on the white room but no one really understood why he had to heal that girl and what he was feeling inside. Only Liz understood him.

3) in season 3 Max DIED, still i don't remember that Michael "healed him inside". Max didn't even get the time to understand what the heck happened to him and no one outside of Liz asked him how he was feeling after that terrible experience.
in the same season Max did lose a son. Liz was the only one there with him comforting him.

now , i honestly find it pretty normal. we can't be with our friends everytime they need us. sometimes you don't notice that someone is hurt.
BUT what i hate is the hypocrisy of who accuse one of doing something that he did too before and after and he doesn't even realize it.
I hate that some things are pointed out only on a character while for the others we see no problem at all. how what is normal and human for one is not the same for another. THIS isn't normal for me.

this was mostly the writers' fault because they made it seems that Max's problems weren't important even if basically he experienced things that no one experienced and his problems weren't so small compared to the others.

other examples of general hypocrisy in the show:

- Max is often accused of being controlling and abusive while all of them are like that and they showed it more than one time especially Michael.


- Isabel is one of the most hypocritical ones IMO. she accused Max of healing Liz and with Michael she didn't want him to start a relationship with her. Then it was pretty ok for all of them to start a relationship with other humans even before Max started his relationship with Liz. it was pretty ok for Isabel to date more than a guy and eventually marry Jesse in season 3 even if she was against alien+human relationships from the start. Michael did the same. He told Max to stay away from Liz and not get involved. but then he got pretty involved with Maria. Max loved Liz for 10 years and kissed her after 9 episodes. he had to keep secret his feelings for years. He got involved with her because she could have died, because he saved her life and loved her from ages.
Isabel liked Max as the king and the leader only when it was about controlling Michael, only when she wasn't the one to "control". when it was about their 'destiny' and the hard things to handle then it was "What happens now, Max?" but then when it was about HER and what she wanted then Max wasn't the leader anymore and he couldn't make decisions even if her decisions were stupid and selfish and could put the group in danger just like Max's or Michael's .

- destiny. This is the bigger one but the writers partially explained it in departure.
"Destiny" was about BOTH Max and Tess and Isabel and Michael. still it seemed that ONLY Max was forced to be with Tess no matter what and no matter what he wanted. Even FMax developed this stupid storyline. it seemed that Max's feelings were unimportant and he didn't have the right to choose who he wanted to be with. that's terrible and such a boring storyline full of nonsense.
And don't tell me that Zan and Ava were married while Rath and Vilandra not. Firstly Max&Co aren't really Zan&Co. they're clones and even if they were really them (something that is always impossible because even into a real reincarnation you will never be the same identical person) it was irrelevant. At the beginning Tess and Nacedo and the destiny book made clear that the four of them were programmed to be together. the four of them. not just two. and the past life was irrelevant at this point (casually Tess started her legend about Zan and Ava only after they saw the momogram. before it she was just programmed to be with Max and she never talked about Max loving her into another life. she didn't talk about another life, in the first place. )
Not to mention that even if Zan was married with Ava it didn't mean that Max must do the same thing and the same choice. Also it didn't seem to me that the role of the "queen" was so fundamental for Zan's role. they weren't linked. It doesn't seem to me that Max couldn't be the king if he didn't f++k his artificially programmed mate. where it was written? where it was proved? it seems to me that the show proved pretty the contrary. foe example at the summit no one tested Tess in order to see if she was the "original" queen, she had no royal seal and when Max died Michael got it not Tess. actually they didn't give a damn about her and her opinion. she didn't even get a chair at the table! In season 3 she had to escape from Antar alone. betrayer or not she still had Max's son with her but Zan's followers didn't protect their supposed queen. so it doesn't seem to me that Max's romantic life was relevant for his political purposes and their supposed purpose as the royal four.

but then when we discovered Tess' true colors and the deal Nacedo did with Kivar everything made so much more sense.
Max was the only one forced to accept "destiny" because Nacedo made a deal with Kivar where a son from Max was needed. Obviously Kivar didn't want a son from Michael, he wanted one from Max. so no need to push Michael and Isabel together and they started to concentrate their energy on Max only. basically Michael and Isabel were only a way to make it seems that destiny was something programmed for all of them, when they saw that it didn't work Tess started to concentrate only on Max. truth is that there was no destiny. Most likely the destiny book just suggested it. i doubt that the antarians thought that Max&Co could have found "mates" in the human race so they suggested them to mate with other hybrids, the ones who were the clones of their partners in the other life.
i remember a cut scene from season 3 in the episode WDAMYAK where the destiny book changed after Max's death. i don't know why they cut it, it was very telling.

- again the whole thing about destiny and how only Max was forced to be the king etc etc. when he didn't and wanted to live his own life then he was selfish. even if ALL of them made the same decision and it was the royal four not the royal one.
Max is being called the selfish one (and even Liz sometimes, even if she sacrificed her happiness for destiny! for nothing) while the others are free to do what they want. Even Tess did what she wanted. She totally betrayed their purpose as the royal four by working for their enemy. and in the first timeline (so even before evil Tess) she left roswell because Max didn't want her. basically she wanted to help them for their purpose as a group only if Max wanted her romantically and when she didn't get it she wanted to leave them because everything she cared was to get into Max's pants not their purpose as the royal four.
I don't remember a single time where Tess really talked about their purpose as a group or about "poor antarians to save"- all the talked was "Max you're always so righttt i'm your wifeeee you loved meeeeee" period.
also it doesn't seem to me that Max could do so much for the antarians. the plan sucked big time. the antarians who created Max&Co sent them into our planet with a destiny book with a language that they couldn't understand nor they were programmed to understand. (eventually a human translated it!) they provided them "protectors" who acted as enemies (one of them wanted to be human and was a producer in hollywood O_o ) they had no allies. no more useful informations. basically they had nothing. i don't understand what a boy could do against an enemy like Kivar, his followers. into a planet he didn't remember and he didn't know about.


another big example of hypocrisy in the fandom is how Liz is being called selfish and self-centered. come on!
after everything she did. after she sacrificed her happiness for a whole year because of "the end of the world" how she can be the selfish and self self-centered character of roswell is beyond my understanding. how she can be more selfish and self-centered than the others? O________O look at characters like Tess and Isabel above everyone. (now, i don't dislike Isabel. ) and Maria? come on......
i don't even remember when Liz really did something for herself alone. the only time she did it was in ch-ch-changes and honestly she needed it!
IMO her problem is that she wasn't selfish and self-centered enough because sometimes you really need to be like that.
I would have never (and i repeat never) sacrificed my happiness like she did in season 2. She did hurt the man she loved and she was unhappy for.. for what?
in the end her best friend got killed by the girl who was supposed to help them, by the girl Liz sacrificed her happiness and Max's for.
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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by RosDude » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:41 am

Okay so one of the things that always kinda bothered me was this.

Max was tortured! Not patted on the hand, not spanked on the ass, not sent to his room without supper! Tortured! Yet, aside from in the beginning of the episode Destiny, he was fine. And the only other time the fact that he was tortured was even brought up was when he justified his reason for not healing that car accident guy.

Here are my problems with that. Dude, he was flippen tortured! They started to cut his chest open! They freaking electrocuted him! They like…pumped him full of drugs and crap. And homeboy just shakes it off like it was nothing, and doesn’t even bring it up again for like…seven months.

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by Behrsgirl77 » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:44 am

RosDude wrote:Okay so one of the things that always kinda bothered me was this.

Max was tortured! Not patted on the hand, not spanked on the ass, not sent to his room without supper! Tortured! Yet, aside from in the beginning of the episode Destiny, he was fine. And the only other time the fact that he was tortured was even brought up was when he justified his reason for not healing that car accident guy.

Here are my problems with that. Dude, he was flippen tortured! They started to cut his chest open! They freaking electrocuted him! They like…pumped him full of drugs and crap. And homeboy just shakes it off like it was nothing, and doesn’t even bring it up again for like…seven months.

~Chad~

Chad,

Thanks for beating me to the punch here. I 100% agree with you there. I've had this conversation dozens of times with people and for me it comes down to this...Max went through all that, it took 2 episodes to watch his entire ordeal. And then nothing. We start off with a talk with a shrink, and that's it. No coming to grips...nothing! *grr*

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by nibbles2 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:41 am

I think Max was just the type of person who interalised all his feelings and wouldn't have made a thing of it. Maybe he talked to Isabel and Maria about it over the summer. Or you could say that his behavior during the second season was in a way brought on by the stress of what he went through.

What annoys me the most about all that, is the fact that Liz walked away from him after what had just happened was completely glossed over. Max would have had every right to feel abandoned and to have a hard time trusting Liz again.

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by killjoy » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:51 pm

For all that knows me you know I'm going to have to say this.

They built us up with this........We first have the scene where Kyle told Tess she was part of their family.That happy look on her face knowing for once she belong some where.And than her telling Kyle he was her favorite human.Than you fast forward to the Christmas ep.Tess not only made Kyle his favorite meal but that look he gave her when she walked away.Than last but not least the way the two acted while at Vegas....dancing with one another and all of that.

So when they had Prom Kyle takes her into the closet and says......."I love you like a sister.".....I was like HUH?! DO WHAT?! :twisted: .....I swear I did bang my head against something.And I think I still have the mark from it :roll:

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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by Daydreamer23 » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:49 pm

killjoy wrote:For all that knows me you know I'm going to have to say this.

They built us up with this........We first have the scene where Kyle told Tess she was part of their family.That happy look on her face knowing for once she belong some where.And than her telling Kyle he was her favorite human.Than you fast forward to the Christmas ep.Tess not only made Kyle his favorite meal but that look he gave her when she walked away.Than last but not least the way the two acted while at Vegas....dancing with one another and all of that.

So when they had Prom Kyle takes her into the closet and says......."I love you like a sister.".....I was like HUH?! DO WHAT?! :twisted: .....I swear I did bang my head against something.And I think I still have the mark from it :roll:
I completely agree with you! Kyle and Tess had such amazing chemistry, and then they flushed it down the toilet to have Tess chasing Max around again. Most of season 2 just had me cringeing.
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Re: Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

Post by RosDude » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:56 pm

Daydreamer23 wrote:
killjoy wrote:For all that knows me you know I'm going to have to say this.

They built us up with this........We first have the scene where Kyle told Tess she was part of their family.That happy look on her face knowing for once she belong some where.And than her telling Kyle he was her favorite human.Than you fast forward to the Christmas ep.Tess not only made Kyle his favorite meal but that look he gave her when she walked away.Than last but not least the way the two acted while at Vegas....dancing with one another and all of that.

So when they had Prom Kyle takes her into the closet and says......."I love you like a sister.".....I was like HUH?! DO WHAT?! :twisted: .....I swear I did bang my head against something.And I think I still have the mark from it :roll:
I completely agree with you! Kyle and Tess had such amazing chemistry, and then they flushed it down the toilet to have Tess chasing Max around again. Most of season 2 just had me cringeing.
Dude I third that. The Tess and Kyle parts were some of the funniest parts in the entire second season. I liked them together. Kyle was always one of my favorite characters, and I never really hated Tess because well...she was hot. But putting her with Kyle made me like her more. The thing that kinda blew the most about it was that Tess had not even really had any scenes with Max since that New York episode. As a matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken just about ALL of her scenes after that were with Kyle. And I agree that they had more chemistry as a couple than as brother and sister.

~Chad~
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