Tess the real dupe?

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Sin
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Sin » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:01 am

valentinebaby wrote:you can't except someone to be a fully functional member of society if they're kept apart from it. I don't think a year is enough time to fix that kind of damage.
I think I could agree with you if I felt that Tess in anyway had hardships interacting with people due to her isolation but she wasn't. She was often very direct about what she wanted, how she felt and what she felt that they were meant to do. She had no problem getting her way and she was no way a shrinking violet. So I don't see the isolation argument in that aspect. Unless you are saying that Nascedo raised her to make her see herself as standing apart from society. In that context it makes a lot of sense as to why she hated the humans and why she often manipulated people into getting what she wanted. But if this is implying that she didn't know her actions were wrong or that she didn't know then I disagree again, because she clearly knew that her actions were wrong because she hid them from everyone and was deceitful.

Nascedo raising her seemed to have no impact on her ability to socialize with the group from what I could tell. She flirted with Kyle endlessly, was able to manipulate herself within the group pretty well too, hardly was she a social recluse. The only thing it seemed to show was that she was less human in terms of having empathy for others. She couldn't relate to the group because she couldn't love. That's pretty much the biggest thing I think Nascedo could have done to her. But I think that could have changed had Tess wanted to change.

But again I don't think that this is all on just Nascedo. We aren't just the people are parents teach us to be. We are the person we want to be at the end of the day. The circumstances don't define the person, the individual does. Otherwise Michael wouldn't be who he is. Tess had lots of freedom to change and she chose not to at the end of the day. Saying she was the victim of the system seems like a tidy way of reducing her accountability in it all. Saying that it wasn't her fault and blaming it all on Nascedo seems to be a cop-out. Where is her responsibility in her actions? I understand the thought behind it - Nascedo raised her to be alien and his impact was lasting so how could she really choose differently with that mind set? - But I don't think that works. Tess choices were her own and she could have chosen not to go through the deal with Kivar. Nascedo had been dead for an entire year at that point so she had no reason to go through with it.

As to "fixing the damage" portion of the discussion, I never felt that Tess was damaged because I don't believe she was abused or really showed signs of being a person who was abused. The only way that she was damaged was that she was more alien then the rest of them but I never thought of that as something that was irreversible had she tried to really be apart of the group instead of just stalking Max all the time. I never got that she was broken from the show. She was just more "alien" then the rest of them.
Rowedog wrote:You don't think that being cold, detached and emotionally unavailable towards a child that you're technically raising isn't abuse?
I think the only lasting negative impact Nascedo could have had on her would be making her more alien and less human. She hated the humans and that was most likely from Nascedo's influence and she probably was less able to relate to people emotionally but I think that's the extent of it. However this was also reinforced by Tess' own desire to believe these things. Tess' didn't want to have loving relationships, she simply wanted to be fawned over this was evidenced in TLAV where she mind warps her way into the group and forces herself on them and then in later episodes when all she desires if for Max to be with her, not because he loves her but simply because she wants him. His wants, needs or desires don't matter to her.
Our relationship with our parental figures shape the rest of our interactions with people, it creates a schema which we draw upon when making new friends and meeting new people. So if Nacedo was cold, distant and emotionally unavailable to her, that's what she would have learned. That was all she'd ever known for a decade and it would take a lot more than a short year or so with Jim and Kyle to change that.
We aren't only are parents vision though. We are more then that. We are also the person that we want to be as well. Even if Nacedo was distant with Tess emotionally speaking this doesn't mean that Tess would always be emotionally distant in all of her relationships. She wasn't ruined for the rest of her life. She was in a worse situation then the average person perhaps but she could have changed that if she wanted to. But she didn't. That was a choice she chose to follow and she even kept her supposed "family" at a distance from her because that was the way she wanted things to be.

I feel compelled to go back to the Michael and Hank comparison. Michael didn't want to be like Hank and even though Hank was his provider the person he probably spent the most time with as a child and as an impressionable adolescent yet he was still able to make something of himself even due to a horrible situation. Same with Ava she could have chosen to be just like the other Dupes (Lonnie and Rath) yet she didn't want that for herself and she changed and was a better person than them. I feel that the same goes for Tess.

If Tess was really disheartened by the way people treated her (even though they really weren't horrible to her), if she really cared about a lack of friendship within the group, if she wanted these relationships then she would have reached out for them and she never did. The only time she did was most of the time to manipulate the person she was interacting with. To imply that Tess couldn't have been more, couldn't have been better, couldn't choose the right choice, due to her emotionally stinted relationship with Nacedo seems more or less as a way to lessen her accountability in it all. It implies that she had no choice or free will on her own. Tess had many choices and she frequently chose the ones that were morally blame worthy and that can't be tossed back all on Nacedo. She has to stand by her choices. Tess is more then just Nacedo. Did Nacedo impact Tess? Of course. But he wasn't the only factor (I would argue that he wasn't even the main factor) Tess was the main factor in all of this because it's her life.
I do believe her upbringing played a major part in the way she interacted with people and what she did...but it does help me to understand her better.
I still believe her betrayal is unfounded due to the condition that Isabel, Max, Alex and Michael didn't deserve what Tess did to them in any context of the situation. I would say at best I don't understand Tess what so ever because she had every chance to make her life better but she opted out of potential happiness each time because she only wanted to be Queen and go on a planet no one cared about. All of Tess' problems in the later seasons were entirely self-inflicted. She could have had a family, she could have been happy, she could have had a support system, and she could have had friends but she didn't want any of those things. Perhaps because she wasn't human and she couldn't love. She didn't care about anything other then Antar and betraying her family so she could be worshiped as a Queen. Maybe I do understand her, I just don't like her because her value system is so screwed up. :lol:
Who knows what Tess could have been if she'd been raised differently?
Tess wouldn't be Tess anymore then. It seems we are digressing from what Tess was into what Tess could have been (or more aptly put for her fans, what she should have been). But I think given who Tess was she was everything she wanted to be in her own right which is why I say love or hate her for what she is.

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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Rowedog » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:59 am

Sin wrote:
Rowedog wrote:You don't think that being cold, detached and emotionally unavailable towards a child that you're technically raising isn't abuse?
I think the only lasting negative impact Nascedo could have had on her would be making her more alien and less human. She hated the humans and that was most likely from Nascedo's influence and she probably was less able to relate to people emotionally but I think that's the extent of it.
Then you really don't understand the impact that an unhealthy childhood has on a person. As a developing infant if you don't get the stimulation you need from your parent or a guardian figure, then a part of your brain doesn't develop correctly and you actually acquire a form of permanent brain damage. Children need strong, secure bonds with a parental figure to develop in a healthy way and the effects of this have been researched and proven time and time again (Look up John Bowlby's Attachment Theory if you'd like more info).
Our relationship with our parental figures shape the rest of our interactions with people, it creates a schema which we draw upon when making new friends and meeting new people. So if Nacedo was cold, distant and emotionally unavailable to her, that's what she would have learned. That was all she'd ever known for a decade and it would take a lot more than a short year or so with Jim and Kyle to change that.
We aren't only are parents vision though. We are more then that. We are also the person that we want to be as well. Even if Nacedo was distant with Tess emotionally speaking this doesn't mean that Tess would always be emotionally distant in all of her relationships. She wasn't ruined for the rest of her life.
Well, this is touching on the nature versus nurture debate, but personal choice can only go so far and it can be extremely hard to overcome your past and your upbringing. I personally don't feel that Tess ever felt that she could choose another way of being. But that is ony my personal opinion and it's extremely open to interpretation.
I feel compelled to go back to the Michael and Hank comparison. Michael didn't want to be like Hank and even though Hank was his provider the person he probably spent the most time with as a child and as an impressionable adolescent yet he was still able to make something of himself even due to a horrible situation.
Non-comparable. Michael had Isabel and Max much earlier on in his life. He had functional relationships with people he could relate to and he knew would be there for him. It doesn't make up for a parental figure, but it's a hell of a lot more than Tess had. The only relationship Tess ever had was with Nasedo which was cold and distant. Couple that with the fact that they were constantly on the run from the special unit who wanted to dissect her and you have an extremely warped and traumatic childhood. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it does explain why she did what she did. I'm not interested in excusing her behaviour by making her out to be some victim. She made her choices and she chose badly, I'm more interested in why she made them.
Who knows what Tess could have been if she'd been raised differently?
Tess wouldn't be Tess anymore then. It seems we are digressing from what Tess was into what Tess could have been (or more aptly put for her fans, what she should have been). But I think given who Tess was she was everything she wanted to be in her own right which is why I say love or hate her for what she is.
So, on one hand you're saying that her upbringing had nothing to do with the choices she made, but on the other hand you're saying change her upbringing and you change her entirely? You've basically made my point.
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Sin » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:03 pm

Rowedog wrote: Then you really don't understand the impact that an unhealthy childhood has on a person.
Mmm. I don't think so. I simply believe that a person is more then just their upbringing otherwise civilization would just be repeating itself continuously with no change or movement forward. A person is more then just their parents influence. Does this deny the impact on the child from the parent? No. I don't believe I ever said that. But to deny choice, free will, personal development and the like is completely disregarding a persons natural autonomy.
As a developing infant if you don't get the stimulation you need from your parent or a guardian figure, then a part of your brain doesn't develop correctly and you actually acquire a form of permanent brain damage.
All of the aliens emerged in the form of healthy six year olds from what we were told. So we're saying because Nacedo wasn't affectionate with her she had brain damage and this is what screwed her up? That's an assumption that was never given in the show and to imply such seems to be something that is entirely fan related. I doubt Tess was mentally damaged or that she had any mental handicaps. As I said previously There were characters on the show who had either poor parental figures in their lives or none at all but they were still able to be well adjusted people. I keep going back to that because I feel it's important to note that just because you have a bad childhood with a negligent, abusive or no parent at all doesn't mean that you are hard wired to make poor choices in life and you can't be a person who is moral and well adjusted.
Well, this is touching on the nature versus nurture debate, but personal choice can only go so far and it can be extremely hard to overcome your past and your upbringing. I personally don't feel that Tess ever felt that she could choose another way of being. But that is ony my personal opinion and it's extremely open to interpretation.
I always believe that a person can change their situation denying that means that we are forced into doing things we are unhappy with. If we have a choice then we are always in control of our own lives and our own respective "destinies". I don't ever think there is a limit to choosing what you want to do with your life or not being in control with what you want.
Non-comparable.
You were stating how important the child/parent bond was and I pointed out a relationship where Michael was abused with his primary parental figure. Michael didn't become Hank because he didn't want to. Which shows that someone can overcome past obstacles and become a better person in light of everything, inspite of horrible circumstances.
Michael had Isabel and Max much earlier on in his life.
Were Isabel and Max his parental figures then? I don't think so. He may have had limited support from them regarding his relationship with Hank but Michael was still stuck with Hank for years and had to put up with his abuse for just as long even if he did have friends in Isabel and Max. It was probably one of the chief reasons as to why Michael was so heart set on Antar and finding out their origins because he wanted out of there. My main point with the Michael comparison is just to show that at some point you have a choice, and that just because you have bad parental figures in your life doesn't mean that you are forced into following destructive footsteps. the "I was raised that way..." argument only goes so far until you can start making your own choices, your own decisions, and end up creating your own life. Which means you are more then just your upbringing. You are what you make yourself and you are what you want to be or chose to be.
He had functional relationships with people he could relate to and he knew would be there for him. It doesn't make up for a parental figure, but it's a hell of a lot more than Tess had.
I agree on this. Tess had it hard being by herself. I don't think this changes what I've said though. Just because a parental figure is abusive, negligent or worse doesn't mean that you are forced into making destructive choices. It seems as if we are disregarding free will here in the case of the argument of "upbringing defines you", when I don't think that was ever the case.
It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it does explain why she did what she did.
I'm still not quite sure I follow. So because Nascedo was distant with her that means that Tess betrayed the very people who she herself considered family? People who were willing to do a lot for her. People who housed her, kept her safe, risked their lives for her, and who were willing to leave the planet for her because she was getting sick? I don't see it. Unless you are saying that Tess was so numb and so unfeeling that she couldn't appreciate all the things the group did and were willing to do for her.

It doesn't make sense to me because it contradicts with what Tess said she supposedly wanted in the first place which was the be with them and to be apart of them. I personally think it just comes down to the fact that Tess was selfish and she considered her role as Queen and the possibility of being worshiped on Antar more important then her burgeoning relationships with the group. I do think that Tess was just not capable of love and that may come down to her being raised by Nasedo, but the fact that Tess wasn't interested in changing that or that she didn't want that for herself comes down to Tess and her own personal choices. You can only go so far with the Nascedo influence. I personally find it more concerning that she didn't want to have relationships, friendships or that she devalued them in favor of something that was quantifiable, finite and truly meaningless (a throne and a trip to Antar which proved fruitless because they refused to accept her anyway).
So, on one hand you're saying that her upbringing had nothing to do with the choices she made, but on the other hand you're saying change her upbringing and you change her entirely? You've basically made my point.
I never said her upbringing never had anything to do with her choices, just that the major factor in what Tess did comes down to her own choices and I don't believe that Nascedo's influence was the major determining factor in her actions. Tess is not that dependent on him, she had her own mind and was very much a free agent. She was not beholden to him and if Tess at any point disagreed with his ideology then she wouldn't have did what she did. Ultimately Tess chose those actions because she agreed with them and saw that they worked out for what she wanted. Not because she was a slave to Nascedo's logic and couldn't see differently. I doubt that Tess was really that devout to where she would be a servant to anything he believed or said. Did he have influence on how she saw things? Of course, but I doubt that his look on things was what tipped the scale for her.

My point about the what-if scenario was that you are taking away aspects of who Tess was in order to make her into this fictional nice person that doesn't exist. Who knows how she would have turned out if she wasn't raised by Nascedo. She could have still done what she did, or she could have chosen not to by the last minute but when you start changing major things about Tess her manipulation, her disdain for humans, her betrayal, etc. then Tess isn't Tess anymore. She is this fictional character that never existed. You could press the reset button for all of the characters and get different results we don't know how people would react in different circumstances. I personally think that you have an innate sense of what is right and what is wrong. However there are others who would disagree. You can cherry pick certain qualities that one doesn't like about a character and change things around but at the end of the day that character isn't the same character from Roswell.

I don't believe that Tess was a slave to her upbringing, I don't believe that she was a painfully damaged individual who didn't know right from wrong and felt that she had no choice in her decisions, I don't believe she was helpless to stop what she put into motion. As to the possibility of if she had another upbringing and what she would have been like I am not that interested because I don't think it changes the truth that Tess had a choice and she could have made the right one.

As to the reason why Tess made her choice I thought it was obvious that she only cared about what she wanted and what she wanted apparently was to go back to Antar and be a Queen, I find that to be quite shallow and unsatisfying in terms of motivation and certainly not one that makes her crimes reasonable or understandable. At least not to me.

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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Coccy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:36 pm

the truth is always in the middle
I think that the personality of a person is the result of many things and upbringing/childhood is one of these. At the same time i think that some of our personality traits are always there regardless the upbringing. They're innate and distinctive. Contrary to what many believe a child has his personality too and he will always carry it even as an adult. The personality of a child isn't directly created by his/her parents or childhood. But childhood can make worse some traits that were already there (either the very negative ones or things like shyness and introversion).
Some people say that a parent should, more than anything, understand who his child is. Understand his/her personality. Like when you meet a new person.
Of course you become an adult and you inevitably change, you become more mature but some things are innate.
It's the reason of why in real life you can meet people who experienced a horrible childhood where no one showed them what love is , people that even got abused as a child yet as adults they're able to love intensely and they could never harm anyone.
On the other hand you have some people that experienced a good childhood with caring parents and lot of love yet as adults they commit horrible crimes and they're incapable to love.
There's no general rule that is valid for everyone. Each individual behaves differently according to his personality. Each individual is a mystery because each individual is different and unique.


Rowedog wrote: Non-comparable. Michael had Isabel and Max much earlier on in his life. He had functional relationships with people he could relate to and he knew would be there for him. It doesn't make up for a parental figure, but it's a hell of a lot more than Tess had. The only relationship Tess ever had was with Nasedo which was cold and distant. Couple that with the fact that they were constantly on the run from the special unit who wanted to dissect her and you have an extremely warped and traumatic childhood. It doesn't excuse her behaviour, but it does explain why she did what she did. I'm not interested in excusing her behaviour by making her out to be some victim. She made her choices and she chose badly, I'm more interested in why she made them.
Honestly i think that Michael's childhood is worse :? , mostly because we have more informations about it and we saw it a bit. It's a way more concrete thing IMO. To a degree, the writers used his childhood to explain some of his personality traits. And even when it's about Michael he was mistrustful since he was a kid, since he was born in the pod chamber and he saw Max and Isabel and he wanted to take Max's hand but he didn't and separated himself from them. Foster care made it worse.
While when it's about Tess we can only assume things but we don't really know so much about her and the writers never cared to make her sympathetic and make you see her childhood (like Michael's flashes for example). They never explored her pov. This is the problem. Apart from the obvious assumptions based on the fact that Nacedo wasn't the sanest person of the world I don't feel that the writers really used her childhood to explain some of her personality traits.
Apart from the scene from 4aaab when she played the victim and blamed Nacedo for the most part she never talked about it and we have no idea about her childhood. We can only assume things because Nacedo was weird and he was a killer...something that Tess didn't even know. I remember that it was Max the one who told her about it and she was surprised and later questioned Nacedo about it. This isn't a detail. One thing is to say that she grew up with a killer, another is to say that she grew up with a killer knowing and seeing that he was one. I think that there's a slight difference especially for a kid.
We never saw Nacedo being abusive with her. Not to mention that she seemed to care about him and she didn't want to lose him.
I'm not saying that he was good with her (although maybe he was in his own way. We really don't know but If she cared about him there must be a reason.) what i'm saying is that we don't know what happened to her. Everything is speculation and giving more credit than what was really given by the writers IMO.
Sin wrote: Tess wouldn't be Tess anymore then. It seems we are digressing from what Tess was into what Tess could have been (or more aptly put for her fans, what she should have been). But I think given who Tess was she was everything she wanted to be in her own right which is why I say love or hate her for what she is.
So, on one hand you're saying that her upbringing had nothing to do with the choices she made, but on the other hand you're saying change her upbringing and you change her entirely? You've basically made my point.
We're talking about fiction here. Tess is a fictional character not a real person so she's only the character that was made by her creators. If the writers wanted her to be a different person then they would've written her differently and we wouldn't be here discussing it. The writers could even not write her character, in the first place. But this isn't the point because we're talking about the existing character not another one.
I think that all this talk about her and her feelings, possible feelings and childhood is based on speculations. You can't know what would have happened to her without that childhood because the writers didn't let you know it and they didn't make it a point in the story, not at all. They didn't give you so many clues about it. All these "maybes" aren't really canon or a point because she wasn't developed as one of those characters where the writers clearly make you see the "what if" . Mostly because the writers didn't even let you see her childhood, in the first place. So all this talk is more like an alternative universe fanfiction than a real analyzing of the existing fictional character and the way she was created and really developed.
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by valentinebaby » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:15 pm

Coccy wrote: I think that all this talk about her and her feelings, possible feelings and childhood is based on speculations. You can't know what would have happened to her without that childhood because the writers didn't let you know it and they didn't make it a point in the story, not at all. They didn't give you so many clues about it. All these "maybes" aren't really canon or a point because she wasn't developed as one of those characters where the writers clearly make you see the "what if" . Mostly because the writers didn't even let you see her childhood, in the first place. So all this talk is more like an alternative universe fanfiction than a real analyzing of the existing fictional character and the way she was created and really developed.
If you look there's hints. She said he was never father of the year material, they were constantly on the run moving from one place to the next, the big one for me is that the plan was made before she ever came out of the pod, and he was a murder so his sense of right and wrong was probably warped. At one point I believe she even calls him a monster, it's been awhile but I'm pretty positive she did. The hints were subtle but they were there. So it isn't a theory that's just coming out of nowhere to justify her actions.
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Cocogurl » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:59 pm

You guys have all made some great points. I do think what are parents do to us, how they raise does play a part in who are as people. Because the minute, we come into the world, our parents are our first examples of how to love, how to be good people. But like Sin said, our parents are not all we are. As we get older, we reach a point where we become adults and make our own choices of how to be.

Take a look at Michael. Michael grew up with a man who was severly abusive both emotionally and physically. Michael could've easily turned into a really bad person, I think, because of how he was raised. Even with Max and Isabel, there were serious dark parts to Michael that they couldn't save him from in all of the years they were growing. But Michael made the choice to be a better person. And that was his choice to make. No one else's. Tess had that same opportunity after Nasedo was gone.

Another thing I'd like to point out, that to me, plays another part in who Tess became, is the fact that Max, Michael, Isabel and Tess aren't and weren't just helpless children. They are aliens, who lived a completely different life before they came to earth. And look at how their temperaments were. Max already had the bossy thing down long before he knew that he was a king. And Isabel was the social butterfly, basically the queen B at Roswell High. And let's not forget the way her past life came rearing it's head when Kivar came back. And Michael came out of that pod untrustworthy of everyone and everything around him. It wasn't just created because of Hank. This is the stuff that makes me think, if Tess wasn't a dupe, then in her past life, she wasn't exactly the loving and supportive wife she told Max she was.

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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by valentinebaby » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:58 pm

Cocogurl wrote:You guys have all made some great points. I do think what are parents do to us, how they raise does play a part in who are as people. Because the minute, we come into the world, our parents are our first examples of how to love, how to be good people. But like Sin said, our parents are not all we are. As we get older, we reach a point where we become adults and make our own choices of how to be.
I agree with that, but most normal people have a support system, friends, other family members. She had no one else, until she was in Roswell. So she was basically given a year, compared to the years of outside influences that most normal people get to form their own opinions and become their own people. It's just not a lot of time.
Take a look at Michael. Michael grew up with a man who was severly abusive both emotionally and physically. Michael could've easily turned into a really bad person, I think, because of how he was raised. Even with Max and Isabel, there were serious dark parts to Michael that they couldn't save him from in all of the years they were growing. But Michael made the choice to be a better person. And that was his choice to make. No one else's. Tess had that same opportunity after Nasedo was gone.
Once again this is not the same situation. When you get beat it hurts. When you get beat as bad as Michael did it probably really hurts. Now, if it was me in that situation, I wouldn't want to hurt someone else because that would make me no better than the person who was punching my face in. So yeah I'd make the choice to be a better person too. What Tess went through was much more subtle, it didn't hurt, he didn't bash her face in, she probably never had any clue that it was happening. She probably never considered herself a victim of abuse. Like I said before there's different kinds of abuse.
Another thing I'd like to point out, that to me, plays another part in who Tess became, is the fact that Max, Michael, Isabel and Tess aren't and weren't just helpless children. They are aliens, who lived a completely different life before they came to earth. And look at how their temperaments were. Max already had the bossy thing down long before he knew that he was a king. And Isabel was the social butterfly, basically the queen B at Roswell High. And let's not forget the way her past life came rearing it's head when Kivar came back. And Michael came out of that pod untrustworthy of everyone and everything around him. It wasn't just created because of Hank. This is the stuff that makes me think, if Tess wasn't a dupe, then in her past life, she wasn't exactly the loving and supportive wife she told Max she was.
Okay I'll give you this. Certain things were bound to carry over from one life to the next, because in essence these are the exact same people with a little human DNA brought into the mix, just brought up in a different place by different people. So yeah I agree with this, but I don't think everything would carry over. I don't think Tess was a dupe but yeah I would bet that their relationship on Antar was not what she said it was.
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Cocogurl » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:28 pm

valentinebaby wrote: Once again this is not the same situation. When you get beat it hurts. When you get beat as bad as Michael did it probably really hurts. Now, if it was me in that situation, I wouldn't want to hurt someone else because that would make me no better than the person who was punching my face in. So yeah I'd make the choice to be a better person too.
I don't think you understand the emotional damage that goes along with physical abuse. I was physically abused by my father and I remember all of the emotional trauma. I remember the terror I felt every single day, always wondering what mood my dad was in that day, and having to walk on egg shells ALL the time because I didn't want to get hurt. In fact, neglect became the consolation prize. Because at least if he was ignoring my existence completely, than I wouldn't get beat. And for a lot of kids being abused, not repeating the cycle is not as easy a choice as you would think. In fact, it's really hard when you've been taught all of your life that that is how you solve things. When you get mad, you use your fists. If it were easy to stop that cycle of violence than there would be a lot less abusive parents in the world today. Sorry. Didn't mean to get all dramatic on you. This is just something I sadly have a lot of experience in.
Last edited by Cocogurl on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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valentinebaby
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by valentinebaby » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:46 pm

Cocogurl wrote:
valentinebaby wrote: Once again this is not the same situation. When you get beat it hurts. When you get beat as bad as Michael did it probably really hurts. Now, if it was me in that situation, I wouldn't want to hurt someone else because that would make me no better than the person who was punching my face in. So yeah I'd make the choice to be a better person too.
I don't think you understand the emotional damage that goes along with physical abuse. I was physically abused by my father and I remember all of the emotional trauma. I remember the terror I felt every single day, always wondering what mood my dad was in that day, and having to walk on egg shells ALL the time because I didn't want to get hurt. In fact, neglect became the consolation prize. Because at least if he was ignoring my existence completely, than I wouldn't get beat. And for a lot of kids being abused, not repeating the cycle is not as easy a choice as you would think. In fact, it's really hard when you've been taught all of your life that that is how you solve things. When you get mad, you use your fists. If it were easy to stop that cycle of violence than there would be a lot less abusive parents in the world today. Sorry. Didn't mean to get all dramatic on you. This is just something I sadly have a lot of experience in.
You're right. I don't understand, and I couldn't begin to, okay that's not true I have an idea, but I've never been physically abused so I can't say one way or the other. I was not meaning to say it wasn't hard for him to get past, and honestly I don't think you truly ever fully recover from abuse of any kind. What I meant to say and I don't think it came across right was that he knew what was happening to him wasn't right, and that it hurt, it was just more obvious than what Tess went through. Not saying it wasn't as bad, or worse. Don't apologize, if anything I'm sorry if it seemed like I was trying to make light of it. I really wasn't.
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Re: Tess the real dupe?

Post by Cocogurl » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:53 pm

It's all right. I just worried about bringing it up because I didn't want to turn the discussion into a total downer. :(


Speaking of the discussion, I have another point. :wink:
but most normal people have a support system, friends, other family members. She had no one else, until she was in Roswell. So she was basically given a year, compared to the years of outside influences that most normal people get to form their own opinions and become their own people. It's just not a lot of time.
Support system or not, one year or fifty. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't take away her ability to make her own choices. She made her choice. That's all that matters to me. I'm sorry, but that just feels like another excuse to me. How much time would be enough to convince Tess that betraying and MURDERING the people that trusted her was wrong? Five years? Ten? And when I think about it, she only had a year to change all of this around because of HER choices. She chose to mindwarp Alex into decoding the book. She chose to seduce Max into sleeping with her. And then she chose to lie about that baby so that she could deliver Max, Michale and Isabel to Kivar. So if a year wasn't enough to change, than it's her fault she only got a year. Because she could've had more.

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