Was Michael Abusive?

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Earth2Mama » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:14 am

Cocogurl wrote:
killjoy wrote:I always got the feeling....on the show and in fanfiction...that Maria got a bit turned on and heated up by the bickering she had with Michael! So I don't think you can call something that gets you all hot and bothered abusive.... :wink: :lol:
Lol. No, I really don't think you can. :lol:
I certainly did. :oops: Did I just say that? ... :?
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by killjoy » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:26 pm

Well like I said Maria is the one who was doing the hitting in the relationship.Some said it was for good reason....but I don't think there is any good reason to hit someone in anger when you're in a relationship.Had Michael smacked Maria upside the head like that for any reason people here would be coming down on him.

I think it has to do with the whole mind set where a guy should be able to take a hit and just shake it off to show how tough he is.But if it's wrong for Michael to hit Maria like that than she shouldn't be allowed to hit him in the same way as far as I see it.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Rowedog » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:22 pm

killjoy wrote:Well like I said Maria is the one who was doing the hitting in the relationship.Some said it was for good reason....but I don't think there is any good reason to hit someone in anger when you're in a relationship.Had Michael smacked Maria upside the head like that for any reason people here would be coming down on him.

I think it has to do with the whole mind set where a guy should be able to take a hit and just shake it off to show how tough he is.But if it's wrong for Michael to hit Maria like that than she shouldn't be allowed to hit him in the same way as far as I see it.
She did it once, when she found Courtney in a towel in his apartment. That's hardly a pattern, and frankly given the situation I think she reacted quite calmly :lol: . I don't agree with violence in relationships, but I think it's rather unfair that in every fanfic Maria whacks Michael over the head multiple times an update because of one action in the series.
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by nibbles2 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:42 pm

Killjoy, you need to learn a new tune. :lol:
nibbles2 wrote:
killjoy wrote:
killjoy wrote:You know actually if you go by what happend on the show you could make the case that Maria not Michael was the one who was abusive.SHE was the one who smacked Michael around hitting him in the back of the head. :lol:
Oh well....she was the one who did the hitting in the relationship...and seeing that's what we're talking about here :P :lol:
Also, when he called her honey in 285 south, she kicked him. :lol:

But that slap has so much to answer for - she slapped him one time for a very, very good reason and in every fic by a non candy writer since she's been portrayed as a violent person who slaps Michael for every slight indiscretion and remark.

Does anybody ever label Liz abusive after she violently whacked Max with a mini-golf club in season three? I think not. :lol:

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Sundae » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:29 pm

nibbles2 wrote:[

Does anybody ever label Liz abusive after she violently whacked Max with a mini-golf club in season three? I think not. :lol:
[/quote]

:lol: :lol: OMG that made me laugh so hard.
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Sundae » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:50 pm

I've always felt that Max was the most abusive. Not in his relationship with Liz, but with Isabel and Michael.

There are two types mainly portrayed in the show. Physical and Verbal.

Physically...I always thought Max was the most abusive. I don't recall Michael every throwing the first punch. He might get in your face and argue, but he never got physical. Max on three occasions (not including season 3) hit Michael first and normally considering the characters personality, it would seem Michael would be the one to throw the first punch and not Max (but then again, you have take into account Micheal's abusive foster care past...and then take into account that Max knows about Micheal's past and still hits him)

You can't really count when Max became Clayton. Max wasn't fully Max in that episode and you can blame him for how violent he got there. Same with Michael when he became King...he wasn't fully the Michael we know...and you can't blame him for getting violent in there.

As far as the scene where Michael pushes Maria out of the car...it was just that...albeit it was rough...and same with Max when he was Clayton...(and yes you can argue that it was Clayton and not Max) but wasn't there a scene in season 2 in the hallway...where Liz was talking to some techi guy about getting help with hacking into Alex's computer to find out who killed Alex...and Max roughly grabbed Liz's hand. They were both rough here.

Verbally...I don't think there was any abuse between the couples at all. But I do see some between Max/Michael/Isabel.

Relationship wise..I don't think Michael was ever abusive to Maria...I think they're just both high maintenance people that liked to argue and bicker back and forth...I don't really recall Michael ever being abusive towards Maria.

Everyone argues that Maria broke up with Michael when Michael stayed for Maria. What so automatically Maria is suppose to not have a life anymore just because Michael stayed for her? She said it herself when she broke up with Michael...she was breaking up with him because she loved him too much, more than he could possibly know. She broke up with him because she knew that she was loosing herself and if she didn't try to figure things out for herself, it would only hurt Michael later on if they had stayed together and not worked out whatever issues they had.

And the way I interpreted the last two episodes, they were working their way towards getting back together. In Four Aliens And A Baby, Maria slept spooned against Michael...that's a little intimate for someone that is suppose to be your ex-boyfriend right? And even in the last episode, before Liz got her visions, didn't Maria ask Liz jokingly if she could predict what would happen between her and Michael? She was obviously already thinking about her and Micheal's relationship and getting back together with him on some level...so much so that Michael went with her to Madam Vivians (Maria already made the appointment before they found out about Liz's vision)...again they were trying to work their issues out the way I see it...the only problem was that they ran out of time when Graduation happened and Maria had to make a choice...and she picked Michael. To say that Maria left because she didn't want to be left behind...is crap, she was willing to walk away before...not just from Michael...but even from Liz and the rest of the gang...she was going to NY, she went to NY. Why didn't she just stay there? She was stronger than all the other characters in knowing that there is a time to walk away and time to stay. In the end she had to make a choice and she choose Michael for a very obvious reason...she loved him.

Everyone forgets about Isabel wanting to leave everyone and go to college when she graduated early...AND SHE'S A FREAKING ALIEN. :lol:

Or Max...thinking about leaving behind Liz/Michael/Isabel when he went to the NY summit? No one remembers that. Or what about when he went to looking for Kal and the ship, heck he would have boarded right there and then with prob just a phone call goodbye and left everyone without a thought...but again no one thinks about that.

Or Michael wanting to leave everyone behind in Independence Day. Why is it okay for the aliens to walk away, but for the humans, its looked at such a huge betrayal?

To call Maria selfish for breaking up with Michael because she was loosing herself is crap. She doesn't owe Michael her life and neither does Liz...again didn't Liz leave for Vermont specifically to get away FROM Max? Shouldn't it be selfish of her to do that? The only difference between Liz and Maria in those two scenes is how the pain for each character was portrayed. Liz was hurting externally...we could see her pain (with her powers and stuff) but with Maria it was all internal, kept hidden and we couldn't see it.
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Cocogurl » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:44 am

It makes me sad that all of my characters are being picked apart and called abusive. :( None of these characters were really abusive. Just complicated.

And I must say that I don't consider Maria selfish for breaking up with Michael. It was very healthy for Maria to try and find herself. I wish Liz would've realized the same for herself sooner. The only problem I have with Maria is the wishy washyness after breaking up with Michael. I never tolerated the way Michael treated Maria in seasons 1 and 2. It was hurtful. I don't condone it when Maria does it either. Sleeping with Michael and then hurting him, not cool at all. Especially 'cause she knows how Michael feels about her and that the breakup was not mutual. She'd didn't owe Michael her life for everything they've been through, but she did owe him kindness and respect for his feelings, which she didn't give. And then she finally gets what she wanted, a life with alien drama, and she still gets pissed off. She needed to make a choice because straddling the fence and using Michael while she did was not cute. Now when it comes to the candy relationship, there isn't one character I side with more. I make opinions on what I see throughout the seasons.

Seasons 1 through 2, let's face it, Michael was a jerk and really didn't deserve Maria. Then in season 3, he changed. He became the man that Maria always wanted him to be. And while I don't fault her for breaking up with Michael, it was her actions that season that I felt were insensitive and well, jerky.

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by valentinebaby » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:56 pm

Sundae wrote:
nibbles2 wrote:[

Does anybody ever label Liz abusive after she violently whacked Max with a mini-golf club in season three? I think not. :lol:
:lol: :lol: OMG that made me laugh so hard.[/quote]

Okay what episode is that? I need to rewatch it because I honestly don't remember that.
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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by Cocogurl » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:59 pm

valentinebaby wrote:
Sundae wrote:
nibbles2 wrote:[

Does anybody ever label Liz abusive after she violently whacked Max with a mini-golf club in season three? I think not. :lol:
:lol: :lol: OMG that made me laugh so hard.
Okay what episode is that? I need to rewatch it because I honestly don't remember that.[/quote]

That was in the episode Who Died And Made You King. :D

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Re: Was Michael Abusive?

Post by killjoy » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:37 pm

Rowedog wrote:
killjoy wrote:Well like I said Maria is the one who was doing the hitting in the relationship.Some said it was for good reason....but I don't think there is any good reason to hit someone in anger when you're in a relationship.Had Michael smacked Maria upside the head like that for any reason people here would be coming down on him.

I think it has to do with the whole mind set where a guy should be able to take a hit and just shake it off to show how tough he is.But if it's wrong for Michael to hit Maria like that than she shouldn't be allowed to hit him in the same way as far as I see it.
She did it once, when she found Courtney in a towel in his apartment. That's hardly a pattern, and frankly given the situation I think she reacted quite calmly :lol: .
So what your saying is that if the reverse has happened say a guy who had been hitting on Maria all the time had stopped by her house and was walking around in just a towel and Michael came over and saw this it would be okay for him to hit Maria on the side of the head? He would just be acting calmly as you put it.

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