DreamKeeper wrote:I think what Aoedele was referring to was this:
TESS: I made you think something was happening right in front of you when it really wasn’t.
ISABEL: That’s what you did to Max, isn’t it? That’s why he had all those thought about you.
TESS: I can only keep it going for a little while.
Granted, they were in the middle of a crisis, but you'll notice that Tess didn't deny it. There might have been some dreams in there when Max was asleep, but those visions that Max had at the beginning when she first got there - for my money, those were all Tess.
That's the scene I was referring to as well, but it's a bit misleading to stop there with what Tess was saying. This is what Tess said after Isabel confronting her:
"I can only keep it going for a little while. After you get Max to clear the room, I’m going to go into Pierce’s head, distract him. Hopefully I can keep it going long enough so that Michael and Nasedo can get Max out of there."
Hmm...Misleading indeed. -lol- Thanks for pointing that out Calinia.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with a lot of what you, DreamKeeper, have said.
I understand that it is a bit sketchy for Max to be awake and have his "daydreams", while Isabel and Michael were very much asleep. But if the whole basis of their relationship is that they are King and Queen, then I would figure Max would have the recognition of Tess whether he was conscious or not.
Maybe - and I stress maybe - if I rewatch the episodes, I can *possibly* see your arguement that Tess mindwarped Max - in the beginning - but very minutely. Michael and Isabel, however, it completely out of the question. I don't believe that for a second. I doubt I'll even come to believe that she mindwarped Max.
About no body being dreaming "so hard" that they aren't aware that their flannel shirt is unfire. I beg to differ. Lots of senses incorporate themselves inside your unconsciousness - your dreams. The sound of your alarm clock, your dog licking your face, everything and anything can become part of your dream. In fact, I remember seing a program - rescue 911, I think - where a teenager had wrapped some kind of electrical blanket around her sore leg muscles, and fell asleep. She had a dream that she had a terrible sunburn on her leg, but in reality, the blanket had short circuited and her blankets had caught on fire. So, it's very much possible.
Maybe that was the case with Max. Maybe he felt such a heated attraction - though, this hurts my dreamer heart - towards Tess that he wasn't even aware of the fire on his sleeve. *shrug* Who knows for certain?
Raychel
writing is a socially accepted form of schizophrenia
Tess said the dreams were meant to awaken them. Dreams happen while you're asleep.
Rewatching the episodes … everything that happened with Max at the Crashdown and at school happened along the same lines as the mindwarp that Tess used when she gave her demonstration to Isabel. Being in the moment, and then the scene changes into something else entirely. After a certain period of time, the mindwarp is dropped and the person is back in the moment again. All three times were the same as the mindwarp she showed Isabel.
Tess wasn't above using a mindwarp on Max. She admitted to doing it when she needed him to leave the planet. I just find it in keeping with her character. I'm not saying there wasn't some sort of similar species attraction there, because that was rather evident. And Max had the dreams as well. He was dreaming the night that he woke up to find Tess straddling him. But those other events were different.
I can think of a lot more reasons why she would use it, and not a whole lot of reasons why she wouldn't. She was raised by Nasedo, she wanted Max's attention, and she used a mindwarp on him on at least one other occasion. It was advantageous for her to use it in the beginning. Why wouldn't she?
DreamKeeper wrote:I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Definitely.
Tess said the dreams were meant to awaken them. Dreams happen while you're asleep.
I don't believe she meant it in a "literal" sense. I think she meant it as to "awaken" the knowlege that they knew each other - of destiny - of home - of a lot of other possibilities.
You're right. Tess proved she wasn't above mindwarping in the 2nd Season. But I'd think that if Naesado told her she was Max's destiny, she wouldn't need to mindwarp him, because he'd just *know*, because there'd be that innate recognition there. So, "why wouldn't she" holds credibility, but so doesn't "why would she?" Why would she *need* to if Max has programmed to recognize her?
Raychel
writing is a socially accepted form of schizophrenia
Raychelxluscious wrote:
If *you* want to believe that it's "proof". Go right ahead, and didn't tell you to think otherwise. You said nothing can convince you that she didn't mindwarp them - I said that not three posts early. It's a moot point. Let's get over it.
Excuse me, why are you targeting me? I'm responding to a fun thread in which everyone is disagreeing. Please do not lecture me, I do not appreciate it.
Thanks for those quotes AngelicFairy, that was one of the scenes I was referring to.
Once again I wholeheartedly agree with you DreamKeeper. Tess was raised by Nasedo, he was a completely alien who had tremendous powers. I can not believe Tess being raised by him for all those years and not have pretty strong powers. If she mindwarped Max from Antar, Earth would be peanuts. I believe her powers were stranger than she let on.
Uh, I should probably keep my nose out of this, but I've been following this thread silently and I don't think that Raychelxluscious was trying to lecture or target you. She was stating her opinions, just like you were. It's a two way street.
I agree that there was no real proof that Tess was mindwarping Max (although it's been quite a while since I've seen season 2). I think it could have gone both ways, though, and also think that that little detail is one of the things that the writers never cleaned up. They never gave us a definite yes she was or no she wasn't.
<center> I was terrified and would you mind if I sat next to you and watched you smile? </center>
I too have been silently following this thread. I tend to agree that Tess was a mindwarping hell beast throughout. The writers did leave a lot to interpretation, but some things were clear. To me anyway.
maxandliz4ever1357 wrote:
I agree that there was no real proof that Tess was mindwarping Max
I think the disagreement was wether Tess mindwarped Michael and Isabel. Its been proven she was mindwarping Max. If you're not sure, re-watch Crazy and Four Squares.
To love someone deeply gives you strength.
Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. Lao -Tzu
I don't think so, I thought the whole thing was about all of them being mindwarped. It hasn't been proven that Tess was causing the dreams Max had (the ones he asked her about in the desert), I know that. And I really don't see any proof that she was causing Michael and Isabel's dreams. And in that case, if she wasn't and Michael and Isabel were dreaming of their supposed mates, why wouldn't Max have the same type dreams?
Please note that this is all my opinion, as is anything people have to say on this thread. Not trying to start a riot or an argument.
<center> I was terrified and would you mind if I sat next to you and watched you smile? </center>
maxandliz4ever1357 wrote:I don't think so, I thought the whole thing was about all of them being mindwarped. It hasn't been proven that Tess was causing the dreams Max had (the ones he asked her about in the desert), I know that. And I really don't see any proof that she was causing Michael and Isabel's dreams. And in that case, if she wasn't and Michael and Isabel were dreaming of their supposed mates, why wouldn't Max have the same type dreams?
Please note that this is all my opinion, as is anything people have to say on this thread. Not trying to start a riot or an argument.
First, thank you for defending me in my absence. I wasn't targeting or lecturing anyone, so I appreciate you coming out of lurkdom to speak for me when I could not.
Secondly, it *hasn't* been proven that Tess has mindwarped them (referring to Michael, Isabel, and Max, because, yes, I believe we were talking about all of them. Or at least, I was...) on Earth or Antar (read: I'm talking First season here...). The quotes providing were a mite misleading concerning Tess's response. Granted, she didn't *deny* that she mindwarped them, but she didn't concede the point either.
I think we've talked this specific topic about Tess to death. To quote DreamKeeper, lets agree to disagree, and be over it. I've said my piece concerning this detail.
Raychel
writing is a socially accepted form of schizophrenia
I think we've talked this specific topic about Tess to death. To quote DreamKeeper, lets agree to disagree, and be over it. I've said my piece concerning this detail.
No problem. And I agree.
<center> I was terrified and would you mind if I sat next to you and watched you smile? </center>
