Stargazers and the myth of NC-17

[truelovepooh]

Lisa we cross posted, that was just what I was getting at, I guess we can catch the fruit and rotten veggies together, I make a good veggie soup

[Applebylicious]

So, are you guys Stargazers or Alex shippers because it seems to me that you can't really have one, without the other. They are a couple after all.

Hmm, this seems to be a growing trend in ALL the ships. The whole one-is-greater-than-the-other phenomenon. O_well.

Edited to add: I had no idea this thread was still going! How chatty you all are. Awesome.

[nefarious_liaison]

Though I don't generally read NC-17, I prefer those stories that involve Alex having to make a move on Isabel. It's a facet to his character that was never explored on the show, and I find it interesting to see the spin authors write to have it happen without making him sound out-of-character. It's much more difficult to pull off than having Isabel chase after him, as we saw that on the show and has a definite starting point.

So, are you guys Stargazers or Alex shippers because it seems to me that you can't really have one, without the other. They are a couple after all.

I agree partly with Applebylicious on this. It definitely is a growing trend with all ships to appreciate/love/prefer one character in a particular ship over the other one that completes that ship (i.e. many Dreamers prefer Liz over Max, from what I have read and those I have spoken to). For a long time I was the same way until I began discovering and exploring other avenues in characterisation to make Alex and Isabel equals. Before I found this, I was mainly an Isabel shipper.

To voice an unpopular opinion (from my viewpoint), I thought Alex was a weak character for much of S1. So I didn't much appreciate his character until his air time became less yet characterised more strongly than previously noted. I absolutely adored him in S2, but then again, I'm one of those rare persons who liked S2 better than S1.... But even then, I have always loved the dynamic between Alex and Isabel's characters, if that makes sense.

IMHO, I don't think you can truly love and appreciate the ship you sail until you've gone through phases with the characters it involves. I think we've all had times when we've ridiculed and made an idiot of one character or another in our lovely ships. I know I have! Yes, that includes both Alex and Isabel! And if I think about it, the reason I fell in love with Alex and Isabel as a couple was not because there were the odd people out, but because there was both a certainty and uncertainty that they'd be together. I loved their fallouts as much as their reconciliations! It reinforced my diehard love for the Stargazer relationship.

Anyway, to conclude this longwinded post, I agree with many of you on particular points. I am also, like cardinalgirl, not a very big fan of fictions where Isabel realizes she has to be with Alex. I'll admit to having written them, but hopefully not in the sense of has rather than wants, if that's understandable. I have also realized, to agree mostly with what truelovepooh said, that many people have Isabel issues. I acknowledge that and understand that being a writer of Isabel-centrics and [Isabel] character explorations, I'm not going to be as well received as a story that involves Max and/or Liz (obviously).

(I apologize in advanced that I'm making this thread more off-topic than it already is, but eh. It keeps the conversation going.) Now, here's something I've always wondered. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but having read many posts and read quite a lot of fiction, there's a certain level of romanticism in each story that may or may not be related to the romanticism of the author. It seems to me that those who sail the Dreamer ship tend to be hopeless romantics, others not so/as much. Do you believe this is true? That depending on the level of romanticism (and maybe realism) of the author that it easily determines/factors into who they ship?

[Sternbetrachter]

wow, lots of talking going on!

I love both Alex and Isabel ... I just think that it would be nice in fanfic to see Isabel showing some effort like in HoM since most of the time on the show, it was Alex who was trying to be near to her

but I always remember how Isabel looked when she saw Alex's dream so I don't think that she did not like Alex ... just that she was a scared lonely alien hybrid girl

Alex being a weak character? I don't know ... I always felt he was more a left out character than weak but yeah, he never acted like a stereotype hero

considering that Alex was always Mr. Nice Guy, him breaking out of that and making the first move would certainly be hot and great to watch/read


Trude

[Sternbetrachter]

did that make sense?

[nefarious_liaison]

Yes, that made sense. After rereading my previous post, I didn't mean to say Alex was a weak character in S1, but that he could've been stronger if used more. Like, I wish we could've seen more scenes with him included with Kyle or Max and Michael. Just a more in depth look, I guess is what I meant.

[Sternbetrachter]

yeah,a few minutes after my post(s) I started to think that you maybe meant "weak" as in not given many scenes or much background (even though that leaves fanfic writers with many possibilities about his family, etc)

another reason for the many "Isabel sees the light" stories could be that on the show, it was always obvious that Alex really liked Isabel but not so much that Isabel cared for Alex in a "love" way too ... maybe writers want to compensate that in stories?

[KaraGail]

Great topic! Never thought about it that way but yes I do tend to like Alex more than Isabel. Although, I love them as a couple as an individual I think I always found her inaccessible.

Yes, she was a scared girl who tried to be normal but she was also closed off for fear of hurting someone she loved (parents etc..)I always saw this as her motive for NOT dating Alex. She had feelings for him but she was determined not to get him hurt (I try to write most of my stories with this in mind)

But there are also times when you just need to revise history a bit and have them together and Isabel let's her defenses down for this boy who sees right through her and loves her anyway. Maybe it's her "seeing the light", as it was put, and going after him or Alex breaking out of his shell (because if we are truthful Alex would probably have never gone for it with Isabel. If she hadn't made the move then he would have just decided to let her go and move on with his life, i.e. S2)and make Isabel his own.

hmm..Guess I rambled myself, huh?. Hope it made sense.

Kara

[majiklmoon]

Great topic! Never thought about it that way but yes I do tend to like Alex more than Isabel. Although, I love them as a couple as an individual I think I always found her inaccessible.



Kara

yeah, but this is where the show messed up...we never get to see why she is inaccessible. I mean, here she is, this girl, this alien on a planet God knows how far from her own world, and yeah, she has a brother and their alien friend, but she doesn't have another GIRL alien to help her deal with all the girl stuff.

In the Roswell High books, Isabel is borderline OCD with her arranging and rearranging in times of stress and worry. That fact serves to make her more real to the reader. She has faults and things she uses as a coping mechanism. We seldom get to see that in the show. Also, look at the "Christmas Nazi" we see Isabel as controlling, but they (the writers) never really explore why. That her need to control is to create a semblance of normalcy for her in a world where she is anything but normal.

Then too, look at Isabel in Leaving Normal. She made a huge leap to help Maria (someone she wasn't fond of) in a bad time. This act should have provided us with a huge amount of insight into the character of Isabel, but as usual, the writers failed to explore it as well as they could have.

Yeah, I'm rambling..i'll shut up now

[cardinalgirl]

Then too, look at Isabel in Leaving Normal. She made a huge leap to help Maria (someone she wasn't fond of) in a bad time. This act should have provided us with a huge amount of insight into the character of Isabel, but as usual, the writers failed to explore it as well as they could have.

I think you're totally right. They kept sort of trying to put things in... they always talked about her community service especially in ITL&ITB (I think?) when she's reading Max her letters of recommendation, etc... but we never saw her doing that stuff, except for in Samuel Rising, and there we didn't get to see her compassionate side much, because the Christmas Nazi is just more amusing. She did do those things, though, according to canon. We just didn't get to see it. I'm kind of annoyed about that.

But yeah, getting slightly back to topic, my favorite views of Isabel in fanfic are when that side of her is really explored.... when there's some soul-searching as to why the two sides of herself are so very, very different.


ETA: I love that scene in Leaving Normal, when Isabel steps in at the Crashdown. I think that's the first time I really loved her on the show.