Stargazers and the myth of NC-17

Sternbetrachter · Post by **Sternbetrachter** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:44 am

cardinalgirl wrote: Of course he would want to... he's a guy. Come on, people. He wasn't a saint. But he was a gentleman. My only point is that he wouldn't have asked for anything that she wasn't ready to give.

my thoughts exactly!

Post by **Kzinti_Killer** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:35 pm

The problem here is one of definition. NC-17 (or Adult as we now call it in these parts) covers a broad spectrum. From PWP smut, that's all about grunting and groaning...simple sex and sweat; to lengthly romancing and seduction culminating in a fairly hot love scene. Try as you might Alex "resists" being put into the former type of story. He just doesn't come off as a "throw her down and do her" sort of guy. He'll make love to a girl, but he'll never just have sex. On Isabel's part, the whole world-wise ice-queen thing always struck me as a ruse. Alex may actually have been the first guy to ever get past her defenses....which is what made the whole Jesse thing so gag-worthy. It was completely off base for Isabel's character to move on so quickly...or to move on at all. I got the feeling that Alex was an exception to a lot of rules for Isabel. Not just as a popular girl in a status concious high school environment, but as alien girl allowing herself to get close to a human male for any reason at all.

Laters,
Rick

Post by **truelovepooh** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 9:48 pm

Kzinti_Killer wrote:The problem here is one of definition. NC-17 (or Adult as we now call it in these parts) covers a broad spectrum. From PWP smut, that's all about grunting and groaning...simple sex and sweat; to lengthly romancing and seduction culminating in a fairly hot love scene. Try as you might Alex "resists" being put into the former type of story. He just doesn't come off as a "throw her down and do her" sort of guy. He'll make love to a girl, but he'll never just have sex. On Isabel's part, the whole world-wise ice-queen thing always struck me as a ruse. Alex may actually have been the first guy to ever get past her defenses....which is what made the whole Jesse thing so gag-worthy. It was completely off base for Isabel's character to move on so quickly...or to move on at all. I got the feeling that Alex was an exception to a lot of rules for Isabel. Not just as a popular girl in a status concious high school environment, but as alien girl allowing herself to get close to a human male for any reason at all.

Laters,
Rick

Here here! Well said and I completely agree

majiklmoon · Post by **majiklmoon** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 10:05 pm

Well said Rick!

Mt Gazer · Post by **Mt Gazer** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:13 am

Yep add me to the list of Agreeing.

Rhonda

Zanity · Post by **Zanity** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:25 am

I'm inclined to agree... Not to mention the fact that she had absolutely no room to complain about Max and Michaels reaction to it after all the guff she gave Max in S1 about wanting to be with Liz who already knew their secret.

KarenEvans · Post by **KarenEvans** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 3:29 am

Kzinti_Killer wrote:The problem here is one of definition. NC-17 (or Adult as we now call it in these parts) covers a broad spectrum. From PWP smut, that's all about grunting and groaning...simple sex and sweat; to lengthly romancing and seduction culminating in a fairly hot love scene. Try as you might Alex "resists" being put into the former type of story. He just doesn't come off as a "throw her down and do her" sort of guy. He'll make love to a girl, but he'll never just have sex. On Isabel's part, the whole world-wise ice-queen thing always struck me as a ruse. Alex may actually have been the first guy to ever get past her defenses....which is what made the whole Jesse thing so gag-worthy. It was completely off base for Isabel's character to move on so quickly...or to move on at all. I got the feeling that Alex was an exception to a lot of rules for Isabel.

Well put,Rick.

I couldn't agree with you more.

The whole Isabel moving on so quickly in season 3 got on my nerves to say the least...made me want to gag quite frankly.

It just made no sense-from heart-broken at the end of season 2 to horny(excuse me if I sound crass) Ice Princess in 2-3 months at the start of season 3-Yuck!They made her move on so quickly,so much so that it had no connection to the way they portrayed her after Alex's untimely demise...hello she was supposedly shattered!Alex was the love of her life.So what if they weren't all hot and heavy...the looks,simple gestures and touches conveyed much more than any crappy make out session,etc they showed her having with Jesse.Alex never did anything in half measure,that’s what made him special,he wasn’t just about the physical aspect of a relationship,as Rick said.

Jesse...what were they thinking
He so did not fit in with the show and with the gang and as Isabel's husband,well let's not go there.I know I am going off topic here so I'll stop before I rant on any further.Just needed to let off steam.

I know I've carried on so excuse me...needed to get that out of my system

killjoy · Post by **killjoy** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:42 am

KarenEvans wrote:Jesse...what were they thinking

Yes I myself hated the the whole Isabel is crying over the loss of Alex and than suddenly gets married story line of season 3

Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out which I hate more.Jesse or Grant?

Sternbetrachter · Post by **Sternbetrachter** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 6:03 am

killjoy wrote:
KarenEvans wrote:Jesse...what were they thinking
Yes I myself hated the the whole Isabel is crying over the loss of Alex and than suddenly gets married story line of season 3

Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out which I hate more.Jesse or Grant?

I dislike Grant more - Alex was still alive then - because Jesse is in my opinion more a way of Isabel's to try getting "normal" and trying to move on ... she didn't tell him about her origins, that kinda makes me think that Isabel didn't trust him that all and that Alex's death shocked her so much that she stopped thinking rational

and just reached for the next person to convince herself that she wasn't cursed with a spell when it came to happiness or something *shrugs*

and I also agree with what Rick said

Trude

cardinalgirl · Post by **cardinalgirl** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:01 pm

Sternbetrachter wrote:I dislike Grant more - Alex was still alive then - because Jesse is in my opinion more a way of Isabel's to try getting "normal" and trying to move on ... she didn't tell him about her origins, that kinda makes me think that Isabel didn't trust him that all and that Alex's death shocked her so much that she stopped thinking rational and just reached for the next person to convince herself that she wasn't cursed with a spell when it came to happiness or something

Hear, hear! Exactly what I would have put down, if you hadn't already, first.