When the heck IS Max's birthday anyway? The Roscanon thread

[Tzigone]

Thanks for answering my questions, both of you (though, as I said, I don't need/want info given in later seasons - I'm season 1 only and very intentionally not using S2 and S3 material, except perhaps Alex's mom's name). I know it'll be useful for others, though. It is canon, after all.

I have always believed that Ed Harding and TicTac were different people, and it is not clear which one was Nasedo. It was never clearly explained on the show

Yeah. Harding knew about River Dog (Tess said he said to get the healing stones from River Dog in "Destiny"), but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the Nasedo River Dog knew. And I'll need to come up with a "why" on Atherton's death. Atherton's body was left, and that seems more Harding's style. On the other hand, River Dog was close enough to be a witness, so escape might have been more important than disposing on the body. On the third hand, I'd think Harding would just kill the kid witness, too (provided he was the only one). Which brings up the issue of why Atherton's body was unidentified - River Dog knew who he was, right? Did he have a reason for not telling the police or is just a continuity issue?

But Ed is definately not low key. He has left a trail of bodies all over the southwest, as Hubble says. Tess also mentions that they have been hunted for years by the Special Unit. How could that happen, unless Ed was doing stuff to lead the Specail Unit to them?

Ed seems to be a loose cannon. He is cocky, acts creepy and seems to enjoy scaring the kids, leaving mysterious alien symbols and taking Liz, and he challenges the Sheriff and Max. Why wouldn't he just tell them who he is when he came to town?

Oh definitely. He savored freaking out Liz, and then there was the gas station incident. He's a weird one.

Do you have an opinion on Harding v. TicTac for the symbol in the woods or flaming symbol? I can't find a logical explanation for that for either of them. And there's the photo of the kids there, too. Did he not know who they were before? Not sure. I sort of lean towards TicTac, just based on timing, and say Harding didn't come to Roswell until later.

There is more about this on my website too if you are interested - http://www.roswelloracle.com/theoriesshapeshifter.html

Off to read that now.

[RoswellOracle]

No problem. I love talking theories!

Alex's mom is named Gloria Whitman, if you didn't already know.

River Dog was close enough to be a witness, so escape might have been more important than disposing on the body. On the third hand, I'd think Harding would just kill the kid witness, too (provided he was the only one). Which brings up the issue of why Atherton's body was unidentified - River Dog knew who he was, right? Did he have a reason for not telling the police or is just a continuity issue?

They never gave a reason why no one told the police who Atherton's was. It is never even mentioned where he was killed or who reported the body. I just assumed he was killed on the reservation somewhere, out in the middle of nowhere, and assumed it was River Dog who reported it, but reaIly it could have been anywhere and anyone. I just chalk it up to a TV thing, to make the plot more mysterious.

River Dog was a witness, but maybe Nasedo didn't even know anyone had seen the murder. But even if he did know that River Dog saw the murder, Nasedo needed him alive to take whoever showed up to the drawings in the cave, and to hand over the healing stones.

Do you have an opinion on Harding v. TicTac for the symbol in the woods or flaming symbol? I can't find a logical explanation for that for either of them. And there's the photo of the kids there, too. Did he not know who they were before? Not sure. I sort of lean towards TicTac, just based on timing, and say Harding didn't come to Roswell until later.

As far as who sent the signals, it could have been either, but to me the one in the woods seems more like Nasedo's style, sending a huge, bright signal that is seen by tons of people. Basically he invited the Special Unit to check it out. Now the one at the library seems more like TicTac. It is just a small symbol burned into the ground. It could be dismissed as kids messing around. Although, I do lean toward Nasedo on that one too, only because he put the photo of the kids in the fire. And what was up with that? More TV drama so the viewers didn't know if he was a good or bad alien perhaps.

It didn't make much sense that Ed had a whole box of pictures of the kids. A few maybe could be explained by he wanted Tess to know who they were. But why a whole box? Did he or Tess have a photo shrine of them?

But yeah, there was really no reason for either of the signals. Did whoever that set the fire at the library think maybe Isabel and Michael would come back and check? And what if they did? All they would know was that someone burned an alien symbol in the ground. In one story I wrote, I explained it as Nasedo letting them know he was coming for them soon. Kinda lame, but the best I could come up with at the time.

As for who was Nasedo, it could have been Ed or TIcTac, or maybe a different shapeshifter. There are arguments to be made either way. My friend River Dog has a theory that maybe the River Dog we saw in the episode "Into the Woods' was a shapeshifter who took his form. And that got me thinking, maybe River Dog was Nasedo the whole time. It would make a bit of sense. (Another theory I need to add to my shapeshifter page ) We also both wondered if the native american deputy Owen Blackwood might have been a shapeshifter, because he was the one who told Isabel where the cave where the map was.

[Tzigone]

Harding as the symbol-burner could work. It's overt, as you said. Maybe he's just trying to determine how the gang responds to the symbol - tactically, psychologically, etc. He's weird enough to "test" them, I think. I don't know.

TicTac as River Dog in "Into the Woods" works okay. He knew the symbol was real, and he fetched Michael to go see about it, and that's a bit suspicious. But for the entire time, it's a bit iffier, I think. That would indicate he lied about the sweat, since he wasn't affected as Michael was in "The Balance." But we do know he's willing to deceive them, as we saw him do so. Of course, that opens up a can of worms where we don't have good reason to believe that anything he told them was accurate.

[RoswellOracle]

TicTac as River Dog in "Into the Woods" works okay. He knew the symbol was real, and he fetched Michael to go see about it, and that's a bit suspicious.

It is suspicious. How did River Dog know where Michael lived? Did RD follow him home from the sweat? Did Michael blurt out his address when he was in the balance coma?

And why did RD go to get Michael? Why not Max or Liz? He definitely knew where to find Liz. It is really suspicious to me that Michael was the only one home (the others were already on the camping trip), and RD went to him. Did he try the others first?

Can't you just imagine him knocking on the Parker's door. "Um, is Liz here?"

[memory_echo]

Wow, this thread is huge!
I read the first 20 pages, but when I realized that I would be up all night reading it, I thought it best to just ask. My apologies if this question was already answered.

In "Graduation", is the proposal scene and the graduation ceremony all in the same day? (I need to know for a Dreamer story I'm currently writing.) The 'Crashdown' transcript says it all happened in the same night. I was just wondering if anyone knows about any sources that might contradict this information.

[RoswellOracle]

I personally hated season 3 so much that I have tried to block it out of my mind, so I have no idea what the truth is.

I'd say, do whatever you want to make your story make sense. I'm sure anything you write will be much better and make much more sense than the drivel that was season 3.

[Misha]

Wow, this thread is huge!
I read the first 20 pages, but when I realized that I would be up all night reading it, I thought it best to just ask. My apologies if this question was already answered.

In "Graduation", is the proposal scene and the graduation ceremony all in the same day? (I need to know for a Dreamer story I'm currently writing.) The 'Crashdown' transcript says it all happened in the same night. I was just wondering if anyone knows about any sources that might contradict this information.

I always thought it was the following night. But you can go through the script. They thought they would die on June 12, "less than two weeks away", and Graduation day must have been around June 1st. Liz does say "forever might be 12 days" so you can play with that time frame

[memory_echo]

I always thought it was the following night.

See, I wondered if it was on the same day, because Max has the same shirt from the moment he asks Liz to marry him until the ceremony. Of course, it could always be a wardrobe mistake, since Liz has different clothes... And then there's Michael... Would he really wait 24h on his bike for the ceremony? I only felt the need to confirm this because sense and Roswell don't always go together.

[Misha]

I always thought it was the following night.

See, I wondered if it was on the same day, because Max has the same shirt from the moment he asks Liz to marry him until the ceremony. Of course, it could always be a wardrobe mistake, since Liz has different clothes... And then there's Michael... Would he really wait 24h on his bike for the ceremony? I only felt the need to confirm this because sense and Roswell don't always go together.

You could say it was a week later and I wouldn't bat an eye That would explain why Max was wearing the same shirt Plus, Michael could also have waited that week to go to Maria's. Or it could be two days. Or one day. One thing is for sure: Michael does go to Maria the same day Graduation day was happening

[memory_echo]

Thanks, Misha!
I'll just carry on with my plan to have the marriage proposal and the ceremony all in one night, because it benefits the story.

Can I ask why some fanfic authors describe Max as having 'amber eyes'? Where did that idea originate?
Recently, I got curious about this (I spend a lot of time looking into my dog's eyes, which are amber) and noticed they look nothing like Jason's eyes. Book Max has blue eyes, so the idea doesn't come from the books. It doesn't come from tv either, because tv Max has (gorgeous!) hazel eyes.

I too, fell into the 'amber trap' in my first story (it's what I get for reading Mockingbird39's Innocent ), but at the time, I thought it was some sort of metaphor, linking king Max with the 'king of the jungle' in eye color... Am I reading too much into it?

I didn't think much about this subject at the time I wrote my story, but I'm curious about the origin of fanfic Max's 'amber eyes'.