Things that made you want to bang your head against anything

FamersAmers · Post by **FamersAmers** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:40 am

Ok I was reading and I am a little late on posting but...I had a few things that I wanted to say!

Liz drove me nuts in the second and third season. I am sorry but that Woe is me stuff drove me crazy. No where did it say that she had to stick around and watch Max hook up with Tess. She made it happen, she changed the future, she DID it, no one else did. She needed to come to terms with her actions. She is the one who stuck around and searched for Zan, she is the one who allowed Max to walk all over her in the thrid season. No one else did it. The talk that Maria had with her was long over due, someone needed to tell her that a long time ago. Or maybe someone needed to tell her that she needed to forgive herself.

Now I dont agree with Max sleeping with Tess, but Liz drove him away and made him believe that she had slept with Kyle and while yes she felt like she was protecting the future if she didnt like it...change it.

And now where did it say that Max fell out of love with Liz. Just because Max dissapeared didnt mean that he didnt love her anymore. I just meant that she had changed the future. Future Max did what he had come to do...he came to change the future. I dont think that Max could ever fall out of love with Liz. Even when they were fighting and they were all in the UFO center and Tess asks him what her feels for her...he doesnt come out and say it but we all know it is love. He is mad at her, he is upset with her, but like all of us just because we are mad or upset it doesnt mean that we dont love that person.

I believe that Max felt something for Tess and like she said I dont think it was a mind warp, she was there for him at a time when he thought that every one had left him. Isabel wasnt talking to him, Alex had died, Liz was mad at him. The group was falling apart and Tess was the only one there. We care about people that we come to trust and rely on. So he slept with her... alot of people do that, and yes it broke my heart because despite the way it seems I am a dremer.

I just feel that Liz didnt have to be the doormat I feel she chose to be the doormat..and the woe is me stuff needed to go. No one did that to her, she did it to herself. Sorry for the rant

Grace52373 · Post by **Grace52373** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:52 pm

I am a dreamer too, and I also agree with you Farmer Ames! Liz was a doormat, and she didn't have to help Max search for Zan, but she insisted!

I know that Max screwed up big time by sleeping with Tess, but he and Liz weren't together, and even though he still loved her, he believed that she betrayed him in the worst way.

She didn't cheat on him, because her and Max weren't together when she pretended to sleep with Kyle, just as Max wasn't cheating on her when he was with Tess. The only reason he was with Tess was because she was there for him! She, like Sean Deluca was a rebound. I think that is what Max meant when he told Liz, that he loved Tess differently than Liz. He cared about Tess, because she was the only friend he had at that point. He needed someone on his side, and that manipulator knew it! She was very sneaky, being a "friend" and shoulder to cry on, then isolating him from everyone! She told him exactly what he wanted to hear, unlike Liz, who makes him see the truth, and calls him on his behavior.

Tess made it seem like she had faith in him. She acted like Courtney did with Michael, but fortunately for Michael, Maria didn't break his heart, and she was there to tell him the truth! Liz destroyed Max, and unknowingly left him ripe for the picking!

I am not blaming Liz for this, but I think she should have stood up to destiny, and Future Max, and found a better way. She thought she was doing the right thing, and unfortunately, the consequence was Alex's life!

Then, in Season 3, knowing that it hurt, she willingly helped with finding Zan, and ended up lashing out at Max about something, he thought they were moving past. Liz has a bad habit of running away from her problems. She bottles them up, and then explodes, or runs away (Winnamen Academy, and Florida)!

This, and Maria and Michael's breakup are two of the things that made me want to bang my head against the wall. Destiny, and the Four Square dreams were another!

Grace

~*Sonia E.*~ · Post by **~*Sonia E.*~** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:42 pm

FamersAmers wrote:Liz drove me nuts in the second and third season. I am sorry but that Woe is me stuff drove me crazy. No where did it say that she had to stick around and watch Max hook up with Tess. She made it happen, she changed the future, she DID it, no one else did. She needed to come to terms with her actions. She is the one who stuck around and searched for Zan, she is the one who allowed Max to walk all over her in the thrid season. No one else did it. The talk that Maria had with her was long over due, someone needed to tell her that a long time ago. Or maybe someone needed to tell her that she needed to forgive herself.

I agree Liz didn't have to DO anything that she didn't want to do. Once Liz agreed to Future Max's plan she was all on her own. For the life of me I don't know why Liz cared about Isabel and Michael dying 14 years in the future? Isabel and Michael surely never cared about Liz for her to sacrifice her happiness with Max to save them or the world.

Liz could have went back to Florida with her aunt and moved on with her life like she did in Destiny. Boy, if Liz didn't come back to Roswell at all at the end of the summer, Max could have moved on with Tess all by himself without Liz's interference.

Maria was the last person in the world who should give anyone advice especially about relationships. Maria should have taken a good look in the mirror and heeded her own advice. Then again, Liz probably did listen to Maria and gladly returned the favor to her in Graduation, when Maria was whining about her future. As for forgiveness, Max and Liz should have both forgiven themselves and moved on with their lives separately.

FamersAmers wrote:Now I dont agree with Max sleeping with Tess, but Liz drove him away and made him believe that she had slept with Kyle and while yes she felt like she was protecting the future if she didnt like it...change it.

I was glad that Tess had her happiness with Max. Everybody needs love and Tess loved and wanted Max and Liz proved that she didn't. As for changing the future, all Liz had to do was tell Max the truth about Future Max and come up with a plan together. I still can't believe Liz cared enough about Isabel and Michael to sacrifice her happiness with Max!!

FamersAmers wrote:And now where did it say that Max fell out of love with Liz. Just because Max dissapeared didnt mean that he didnt love her anymore. I just meant that she had changed the future. Future Max did what he had come to do...he came to change the future. I dont think that Max could ever fall out of love with Liz. Even when they were fighting and they were all in the UFO center and Tess asks him what her feels for her...he doesnt come out and say it but we all know it is love. He is mad at her, he is upset with her, but like all of us just because we are mad or upset it doesnt mean that we dont love that person.

I think TEOTW was self-explanatory: Future Max came back to have Liz make his present self "fall out of love with her." I was shown that if Future Max disappeared, then it worked. Max's actions spoke loud and clear to me because if Max was in love with Liz, his supposed soulmate, there would have been no way in hell that he could have had sex with Tess. Liz's actions spoke loud and clear to me also because if Liz was in love with Max, her supposed soulmate; there would have been no way in hell that she could have left him in Destiny, slept with Kyle, or dated Sean. But, this is just my opinion.

FamersAmers wrote:I believe that Max felt something for Tess and like she said I dont think it was a mind warp, she was there for him at a time when he thought that every one had left him. Isabel wasnt talking to him, Alex had died, Liz was mad at him. The group was falling apart and Tess was the only one there. We care about people that we come to trust and rely on. So he slept with her... alot of people do that, and yes it broke my heart because despite the way it seems I am a dremer.

Max loved Tess, was attracted to her, and slept with her because Tess was someone like him and he had to find out about it. I think Max summed up his exact feelings for Tess in Departure and in Busted. I was glad that Tess had her happiness with Max because everyone needs love. Tess loved and wanted Max and Liz proved that she didn't.

FamersAmers wrote:I just feel that Liz didnt have to be the doormat I feel she chose to be the doormat..and the woe is me stuff needed to go. No one did that to her, she did it to herself. Sorry for the rant

You'll get no argument from me and don't be sorry for the rant. Liz became Max's doormat because she wanted to. To me, Max and Liz should have both realized that it was over between them since Destiny. If Liz had a problem with Max having sex with Tess and getting her pregnant, then she should have never agreed to help him search for his son. Liz had every opportunity to move on with her life and if she desperately needed someone, I think Sean was still available. Liz did not have to accept Max's proposal of marriage and travel around in a van, "doing good deeds and avoiding the law."

Liz was a smart girl, after all she got accepted to Northwestern University. She could have left Roswell for good, moved on with her life, became a Molecular Biologist, and later on met her future husband. But again, this is just my opinion.

trulov · Post by **trulov** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:27 pm

Everytime I think of the dock scene between Max and Liz in Busted, I'm just dying to bang my head against something!

Now, let me just say, I understand why Max acted like he did in season 2 - even sleeping with Tess. Thinking Liz had slept with Kyle not only made him lose faith in those around him but also in himself. he doubted his own feelings after that. And Tess was always there for him, reassuring him, trusting him, when no one else would. So, I see why that all happend.

BUT, I CAN'T STAND that he explains all his actions away with "Finding someone like me, it attracted me. I admit that. It was something I had to find out about, and now I'm over it" ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!

Please, please someone tell me what the writers were thinking when they came up with this, b/c I just can't understand how anyone who had watched seasons 1 and 2 would EVER think this was a suitable statement for Max Evans to make.

Maybe, they needed him to sum up his feelings quickly - like in one or two lines. Couldn't he have said something like "Tess was there, when I thought no one else was. When I was at my lowest, she always seemed to be there. Sleeping with Tess was about trying to hold onto something, anything, when I thought I had lost everything. It was never about love or attraction. I'm not proud of it, but I admit that."

I don't write fanfic, but I'm just saying - anything would have been better then the lines those writers came up with. I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT and evertime I think about it it drives me nuts!

Post by **Kzinti_Killer** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:46 am

trulov wrote:Please, please someone tell me what the writers were thinking when they came up with this, b/c I just can't understand how anyone who had watched seasons 1 and 2 would EVER think this was a suitable statement for Max Evans to make.

{snip}

I don't write fanfic, but I'm just saying - anything would have been better then the lines those writers came up with. I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT and evertime I think about it it drives me nuts!

Don't try to understand it, or it'll drive you around the bend. JK and his Krew completely lost sight of what attracted people to the show clear back in the middle of season two. I can only see two possible reasons. Heavy recreational pharmecuticals, or they were deliberately trying to sink their own show. Because they certainly weren't acting like they wanted to keep it afloat. Hence I don't blame the characters for anything that they did or said after TEOTW. The people putting the words in their mouths were out of contact with planet earth.

After the middle of season two, the fic writers were doing a better job, and they're still doing a better job today.

Laters,
Rick

Post by **ISLANDGIRL5** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:31 am

One thing that made me want to bang my head against the wall was Isabel in Graduation.

I'm sorry....but for all her fighting to get Jesse, and to have him accepted, she's just going to say, I'm sorry, but you have to stay.

She'd found someone willing to accept her as she is, which is what she'd always wanted and looked for, and she's gonna give him the boot when he's practically on his knees asking to come with her?

YEAH FREAKIN RIGHT!!!!!

I just don't see it. And what was with Jesse anyway. I'd have been like, you know what, I don't care what you say, I love you and I'm coming with you.

That scene was just....ugh to me.

LovinGuerin2Much · Post by **LovinGuerin2Much** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:47 pm

ISLANDGIRL5 I so so agree with you on that.... Its like she REFUSED to let him come with her, he was almost begging... I still think WTF when I see that part..

Jesse wanted to come with her, he loved her. I understand that she wanted what was best for him but come onnn...lol

Good to know I am not the only one.[/quote]

Sologirl102 · Post by **Sologirl102** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:04 pm

the whole Jesse thing is true, but what also pisses me off is how quickly Isabel married the guy. Sure, she was probably using him as a rebound guy after the love of her life gets murdered by a manipulative blonde alien, but still! You don't get married that quickly ever. Especially not if you're an in the closet alien fearing exposure.

nibbles2 · Post by **nibbles2** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:00 am

pretty much all of season three makes me want to bang my head. I've wiped it out of my memory and I like to pretend it never happened. I like to believe that the fanfic world is the real season 3.

On the whole Isabel/Jesse thing. I actually like them together as a couple but i really didn't like the way they were married after only 7 episodes. Especially as she was supposed to be still in mouring for Alex when they started dating. They should have just had them dating throughout the season. There was so many better they could have done with that.

I never like Alex and Isabel as a couple, she always treated him as though she was doing him a favor by talking to him. And he accepted it too easily. They weren't suited and had nothing in commone and zero chemistry. Still she should have grieved him a little longer.

I wish there had been less Isabel time in S3. She annoyed me too much in general and made me want to bang my head against a wall.

killjoy · Post by **killjoy** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:51 am

Everything from the Season two Prom Ep on.

Killing Alex

Making Tess the killer.

Having it Max that Tess hooks up with instead of Kyle.

I put a hole in the wall I was banging so hard on it.